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jayjay1

Switching to Red Dot - need help

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Hi guys,

I´m sure this subject was discussed before, but I couldn´t find it.

 

My older becoming eyes drive me to shoot my pistola with a Red Dot.

Having a Docter Sight II on a Q5 now.

 

I trained with this combo, but still have no clue how to aim and so on.

Should I focus on the Dot?

 

Please teach me some.

?

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Focus on the targets with both eyes open.

 

The dot appears superimposed on the target wherever you’re about to punch a hole.

 

Learning NOT to focus on the sight is the hard part about moving from irons to a handgun dot.

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58 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Focus on the targets with both eyes open.

 

The dot appears superimposed on the target wherever you’re about to punch a hole.

 

Learning NOT to focus on the sight is the hard part about moving from irons to a handgun dot.

This will not be a problem for me next year when I give an optic a try. 

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Thanks Memphis, yes, I have some trouble with the dot, shooting irons for over 25 years now.

But I will practice and hopefully come over it.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jayjay1 said:

 

 I will practice and overcome it.

 

Exactly, the correct type of practice will overcome the problem.

 

LOTS of practice    :cheers:

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I haven't used a dot on pistols myself, but recall people initially having trouble finding the dot at all.

 

You can see iron sights well before they are on the target. With a dot, you have to get the gun pretty close without that reference, or learn to use some other reference. Ideally, the sight should go on the A zone even if you draw with your eyes closed.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Focus on the targets with both eyes open.

 

The dot appears superimposed on the target wherever you’re about to punch a hole.

 

Learning NOT to focus on the sight is the hard part about moving from irons to a handgun dot.

 This is very true. People don’t realize that you need a little bit of training to use a.dot well, especially if you spent a lot of time using iron sights. What you’ll find is if you focus on the dot it will actually be blurry, whereas if you focus on the target and place the dot on top of the target, it will sharpen into a nice round dot. Really practice snapping your eyes to the target and then bringing the dot onto it (as you should aim anyways) and you’ll actually find yourself not only being faster but more accurate. 

Edited by jkrispies

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Do not look through the lens for the dot.  Stay target focused and the dot will appear on the target.  

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4 hours ago, SilverBolt said:

Stay target focused and the dot will appear on the target.  

 

Unfortunately, it did NOT for me when I first got started 11 years ago    :( 

 

Took lots of practice to "find the dot" quickly.

 

And, even worse when it was an unusual position.

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I’m not big on dry fire but when I switched to Open it is what helped me acquire the dot. Took a few solid weeks to be able to draw and get the dot instantly. Then a few more weeks of dry fire weak hand, strong hand, around corners, table starts etc.

  weakhand is murder if you don’t Drill it a lot

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I just switched to a red dot for the same reasons. The transition is not to bad as I shot Bulleye for 5 or 6 seasons. The parts I’m struggling with are;

 

1. Picking up the dot.

2. Kepping both eye open.

3. Squeezing off the shot.

 

Practice will help all but I fall back on Bulleyes so 1 and 2 will require lots of work and 3 is a tough one as even Rapid Fire round in Bullseye you get 10 seconds for 5 shorts, which is a lifetime in USPSA!

 

How do you get in all the “A Zones”, practice, practices, practice.

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Posted (edited)

Try covering front side of lens w/ any opaque material like a cardboard or tape. If target-focused, dot and target are visible. If dot-focused, target will not be visible. This helps in knowing where your focus is. And correcting it. Repeat until target focus is automatic. 

Got this technique from this forum. 

 

Eta. This may not work aiming behind grills and barricades. 

Edited by BoyGlock

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32 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

Try covering front side of lens w/ any opaque material like a cardboard or tape. If target-focused, dot and target are visible. If dot-focused, target will not be visible. This helps in knowing where your focus is. And correcting it. Repeat until target focus is automatic. 

Got this technique from this forum. 

 

Eta. This may not work aiming behind grills and barricades. 

Assuming one would be looking at target with both eyes open....then do all the other stuff you mentioned...

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I'm messing around with a dot for all of the reasons listed above.  Being left handed and cross eye dominant, iron sights were always a challenge.  The dot will appear but you need to practice.  I dry fired for about a week before I began to see the dot consistently.  I have a Vortex Venom with a outer Impact dove tail mount in my M&P.

I don't shoot it too much. I still have the PCC bug really bad.

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On 6/13/2018 at 11:23 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

The dot appears superimposed on the target wherever you’re about to punch a hole.

This. You don't have to actually look at the dot. If you look at the dot and not the target you will chase the dot because the gun is going to be pointed to where your attention is.  With practice, the dot goes where your eyes are. That is, where your attention is. It just shows up while your attention is on the target. Target = where you want the bullet to go.

 

I have a friend who is a really good shot. Let him shoot my RDS and he sprayed the target all over the place because his attention was on the dot and not where he wanted the bullet to go. Classic.

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My biggest recommendation is to go all in with embracing the dot. That means if your set up includes back up iron sights, specifically the front post, remove them completely. It's much easier to wean yourself off of lining up the irons if they're not there to begin with! 

 

Lots of people I have gone shooting with have gotten so accustomed to lining up the irons that they will go for an absolute co-witness and try to get the dot on to the front post before firing and it slows them down considerably and just adds more to the calculus. When you remove the posts, you take away the muscle memory of lining it up and focusing on the front post.

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On 6/13/2018 at 10:11 AM, jayjay1 said:

 

My older becoming eyes drive me to shoot my pistola with a Red Dot.

So with the 'older....eyes' are you shooting a red dot with prescription lenses? I'm trying to determine if I'll need a different prescription for my dominant eye for shooting a red dot as I would need for iron sights (focal length for iron sights).

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On 6/13/2018 at 10:23 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

The dot appears superimposed on the target wherever you’re about to punch a hole.

I mentioned it above in the OP but will restate my question here...with 'aging eyes' and iron sights there is a different focal length prescription to allow sight picture for the dominant eye. Is that same focal length prescription needed when "The dot appears superimposed on the target"? Just trying to figure this out prior to moving to red dot?

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59 minutes ago, Bench said:

So with the 'older....eyes' are you shooting a red dot with prescription lenses? I'm trying to determine if I'll need a different prescription for my dominant eye for shooting a red dot as I would need for iron sights (focal length for iron sights).

 

I didn’t need to wear my prescription glasses when shooting with a red dot. However, I needed it when shooting with iron sights. 

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46 minutes ago, George16 said:

 

I didn’t need to wear my prescription glasses when shooting with a red dot. However, I needed it when shooting with iron sights. 

So are you far sighted then?? Need 'readers' for close up?

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Just now, Bench said:

So are you far sighted then?? Need 'readers' for close up?

 

Yes. In fact, for my prescription shooting glasses, my dominant eye uses a 1.0 lens so I can see the front sight clearly while my non dominant eye uses plano or non magnified lens for distant vision so I can see the target clearly.

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29 minutes ago, George16 said:

 

Yes. In fact, for my prescription shooting glasses, my dominant eye uses a 1.0 lens so I can see the front sight clearly while my non dominant eye uses plano or non magnified lens for distant vision so I can see the target clearly.

Without your Rx glasses then the red dot doesn't appear blurry I'm assuming because you aren't focusing on the dot(??)

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1 hour ago, Bench said:

Without your Rx glasses then the red dot doesn't appear blurry I'm assuming because you aren't focusing on the dot(??)

 

Yup. Not blurry at all because my focus is on the target and not on the dot.

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9 hours ago, George16 said:

 

Yup. Not blurry at all because my focus is on the target and not on the dot.

THANKS G16, with your confirmation I guess I'd better start shopping around. I'm near sighted so with Rx for distance and not having to spend for Rx shooting glasses for a shorter focal length on the dominant side it seems that a red dot is in the near future for one of the pistols.

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Posted (edited)

Used a dot for quite a while on a M and P.  I find the best way to use it is total target focus.  Train your eyes to focus where you want the bullet to impact, (not looking at the sight at all)  then move your hands/gun to where your eyes are focused.   So for example, when I start a stage, I focus on a specific spot on the target, (not just the target).  I then draw and in the process of driving the gun to the target the dot will come into view.   I  refine the picture depending on distance and hard cover/no shoots and press the trigger.  

 

I did pracice a bit a bit with this and found what helped me most was dry fire practice presenting the gun.  Work through those steps a few times picking  a spot when I dry fired.  Then do the same drill by picking the spot visually, focus intently on it, then close my eyes, present the gun and then open them after presenting the gun and pulling the trigger when I think I’m on target.  Then I open my eyes and see if I’m actually on target.  Suprizingly it didn’t take long and I was able to get this down where I’m almost always on target.  This really helped me to train the mechanics of aligning my muscle memory/gun index to my visual focus.  Then when shooting a stage, it became easy, my gun just continues to follow my eyes from target to target.  

 

Dots are sooooooo much quicker than iron sights.  Just shot limited division today with my DVC and wow.  It had been a while since I used open sights and forgot how much more there is to do.  

 

Edited by Angus46

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