Test results for S&W40 with Titegroup and VV340

[MojitoCalido]

I finally bought a chrono and took the time to make a few different loads.  I used VV340 and Titegroup powders, 3 different powder weights, 2 primer types.  This should be very useful for someone trying to work up a new load.  Maybe less useful if you are trying to find conclusive data about CCI vs Win primers, but still interesting to look at.

 

The constants:

Lee Classic Turret, Lee dies all around

Precision Delta S&W40 180 grain Full Metal Jacket

M&P 40 Pro (5")

88 deg

Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chrono

OAL 1.120  

Sample size for each lot was 5-10 rounds

FYI, PF of 165 with a 180 grain bullet requires 916.67 fps.

 

 

 

Test data:

 

A. TiteGroup

    1. 4.3 grains

        a. CCI primers:

            µ=914 fps (low and high: 885, 944)

            PF: 164.52

            SD=21

        b. Win primers:

            µ=881.2 fps (low and high: 862, 903)

            PF: 158.62

            SD=15.3

 

    2.  4.6 grains

        a.  CCI primers:

            µ=943.6 fps (low and high: 925, 953)

            PF: 169.85

            SD=11.5

        b. Win primers:

            µ=941.5 fps (low and high: 920,971)

            PF: 169.47

            SD=18.4

 

At Area 3 in 2016, the above recipe (PD180, TG 4.6, who knows what primers) averaged 969 fps, PF 175.2

 

    3.  4.9 grains

        a.  CCI primers:

            µ=1008.8 fps (low and high: 998,1016)

            PF: 181.58

            SD=7.0

        b. Win primers:

            µ=999 fps (low and high: 970,1014)

            PF: 179.8

            SD=17.4

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

B. VV 340

    1. 5.0 grains

        a. CCI primers:

            µ=842.8 fps (low and high: 808,874)

            PF: 151.71

            SD=28.7

        b. Win primers:

            µ=865.6 fps (low and high: 853, 873)

            PF: 155.81

            SD=8.8

 

    2.  5.3 grains

        a.  CCI primers:

            µ=938.4 fps (low and high: 912, 952)

            PF: 168.9

            SD=15.9

        b. Win primers:

            µ=927.4  (low and high: 919, 947)

            PF: 166.9

            SD=11.4

 

    3.  5.6 grains

        a.  CCI primers:

            µ=989.8 fps (low and high: 968,1011)

            PF: 178.16

            SD=14.4

        b. Win primers:

            µ=994.33  (low and high: 983,1014)

            PF: 179.0

            SD=11.3

 

Misc notes and comments:

 

Primer comparison:

With TG lots, CCI primers averages were +33, +2, +9 fps faster than Winchester primers.

With VV340 lots: Win primers averages were +23, +11, +4 fps faster than CCI primers

 

The sample sizes of 5-10 rounds per recipe are too small IMO to make any sweeping conclusions about primer differences in velocity or consistency. 

 

Titegroup is a flake powder and wanted to cling to my scale.  VV340 is cylindrical and showed no clinging.  I suspect that the VV340 meters more consistently than TG.

 

I shot from a benchrest at 65 feet.  I did not see a significant group difference between the powders.  I want to say VV was tighter, but it was not a dramatic difference between any of the 4 lighter loads.  With both VV and TG, the hottest loads did start to spray compared to the 4 lighter loads.

 

I left a few rounds of the middle loads to compare VV340 vs TG.  It was only about 4 rounds of each.  I can't tell you which was "softer" or "snappier" by feel.  I'd need to have many more rounds or be a better shooter.  Ideally, I'd attach an accelerometer and get hard data.  Maybe someday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trinimon]

Thanks for posting your data. Did you find the ones loaded with TG more snappy than the vv340?

[Postal Bob]

You didn't say what brass you used. And if you used mixed brass, you can't really get a true comparison. I did a test of various brass, and found a difference of almost 40 fps between the different brands.

That said, I've also found that titegroup powder is very temperature sensitive. While VV powders are very consistent over a wide temperature range. At your testing temperature of 88°, my titegroup loads would feel like magnum loads. And in cooler weather, 38°, my titegroup loads didn't make major pf at a major match. I stick with VVN320 now for consistent velocities across the temperature range.

[MojitoCalido]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:00 AM, Trinimon said:

Thanks for posting your data. Did you find the ones loaded with TG more snappy than the vv340?

 

I left a few rounds of the middle loads to compare VV340 vs TG.  It was only about 4 rounds of each.  I can't tell you which was "softer" or "snappier" by feel.  I'd need to have many more rounds or be a better shooter.  Ideally, I'd attach an accelerometer and get hard data.  Maybe someday.

 

[MojitoCalido]

On 6/12/2018 at 9:13 AM, Postal Bob said:

You didn't say what brass you used. And if you used mixed brass, you can't really get a true comparison. I did a test of various brass, and found a difference of almost 40 fps between the different brands.

That said, I've also found that titegroup powder is very temperature sensitive. While VV powders are very consistent over a wide temperature range. At your testing temperature of 88°, my titegroup loads would feel like magnum loads. And in cooler weather, 38°, my titegroup loads didn't make major pf at a major match. I stick with VVN320 now for consistent velocities across the temperature range.

 

That is not a variable that I tried to control, but these all used once fired brass from the same vendor.  I may try to run another experiment with larger lots that can compare new brass vs a lot of reclaimed brass, but maybe not - I'd rather use my time and budget practicing.

 

If temp, primer brand, and brass brand are all variables that change velocity by +/- 20-40 fps, how does anyone consistently hit 170-175 PF without going insane.

 

[Postal Bob]

2 hours ago, MojitoCalido said:

If temp, primer brand, and brass brand are all variables that change velocity by +/- 20-40 fps, how does anyone consistently hit 170-175 PF without going insane.

You make sure your lowest velocity loads make pf, in the lowest temps you expect to encounter.

That, or you use all the same brass, and use a powder like VV that doesn't deviate much with various temps. This is why it's called a game, and we try to game it as best we can. Sometimes we succeed, and occasionally you get bit at the chrono station.

[SCTaylor]

Is this for S&G's? Or are you trying to work up a load?

Edited June 14, 2018 by SCTaylor

[HBurgSTi]

Great data! I am quite literally just getting in to reloading.  I got my Hornady AP lock-n-load set up over the past couple of days and now I'm waiting for my 180 gr RNFP Blue Bullets to get to my house (hopefully today). I'm going to start off using Titegroup powder, CCI primers, and Blue Bullets with reclaimed mixed brass.  I'm curious how the blue bullets will differ from the Precision Delta FMJs you used (I planned on starting in the same range 4.3-4.6 gr of powder based on Hodgdon's load data).  Does anyone have any data with this same recipe except with 180 gr RNFP Blue Bullets?

[bowenbuilt]

Back when N320 or most other powders we like to use were unavailable you could always find N340. I think it is one of VV's best kept secrets. I purchased some at the time as it was about all that was available and was pleasantly suprised with how versatile it was.  Compared to TG it was softer for me by comparison and much cleaner. I am surprised that more people don't use it for Major in .40. It is an excellent powder for sure.

[bjones6686]

VV N340 is all I use for 40cal major. I run in with 165gr bullets at 1.185oal and love it. I bought a 35lb commercial size container a few years ago for like $20 a pound. Still got around 16lb left of it. 

[cvincent]

I used 4lbs of VV340 for 40 major. It was fine. I did find more Unburnt powder in the gun than with other powders. I would use it again if I had too. Then again I don’t find vv320 to be anything special either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk