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jtrump

Messing around with a Light bullet. dumbfounded

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6 hours ago, jtrump said:

 

I've ran powders much faster than WSF,  I've never had any issue with any combination of bullet weighing 115/125/135 or  147grains.  N320, Titegroup, clays, prima V.

 

You should be having zero issues running a faster powder in a GMR-13 unless something is really wrong.

 

I'm going to try some Jacketed bullets,  back off to my original crimp which is super light and set the chrono out in the sun this go around.    Although I still don't think this is going to solve the issue.

 

 

When running N320 with a 115 gr. bullet I got a high SD for velocity.  Switching to N350 gave much more consistent velocity results.  That's just my experience.

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So just thinking out loud here.

 

But if the throat of my barrel is very deep,  I could load out to 1.160 and not engage the rifling,   and I've always tended to load on the longer side and never had problems...

Is it possible loading so short the gas is getting past the bullet that way?

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Load a few to 1.160 and try them, only sure way to know.

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8 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Load a few to 1.160 and try them, only sure way to know.

 

I Don't think its possible to load a 95g bullet to 1.160.....   The bearing surface is so small that even at 1.100 there is hardly any bullet in the case as is.   

 

I was referring to me being able to load long, "which I am capable of loading out past 1.160" with my rifle,   1.100 will spin freely all day if they spin freely at 1.160.

 

I'm questioning if the gas is getting ahead of the bullet before it actually engages the rifling or if that's even possible?

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On 6/11/2018 at 12:30 AM, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: Try loading some at 1.050" OAL and see what you get. If they feed ok and the chrono shows the same results it could be that the barrel is throated too far allowing the gas to go around the bullet a little bit before it seals. Hope this makes sense? Thanks, Eric

 

I honestly think this may be the culprit.   If that's the case, I simply cant shot 95 grain bullets with this gun...  sad days.

 

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I cannot tell you what is causing your problem, but I duplicate the majority of your variables and do not share your problem.  My barrel is also throated to feed 1.170 OAL and they will spin in the chamber, I am loading with WSF, loading to 1.100", loading 95gr FMJ projectiles.  This load works in my JP barrel and also in my Taccom (which is also throated to spin 1.170" projectiles).  Since my projectiles do not set-back when feeding, I do not worry about the crimp.    If set-back were the problem, I would expect you to have random fast projectiles, not slow ones.  

 

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Well I loaded some to 1.060 last night,  going to test them out...   Also loaded some 125 coated bullets with the WSF I bought thinking it may be the powder....  we shall see after chrono.

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I have loaded and shot a lot of 98 gr coated 380 bullets with TG and have not seen this much variation over a chrono. Did you verify your powder drop is consistent on the latest test loads?

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3 hours ago, bwikel said:

I have loaded and shot a lot of 98 gr coated 380 bullets with TG and have not seen this much variation over a chrono. Did you verify your powder drop is consistent on the latest test loads?

 

Yes, with this last batch I just loaded, I checked the powder drop several times on a digital scale that I check with lyman weighs ,  with the 5 grain weight I'm nuts at 5.0 grains, and my powder drop is 4.9g so it seems to be very accurate and repeatable.

 

I'm curious about blow by, but like L9 said,  we have the same barrel...    If I get some weird stuff happening with the 125's loaded with WSF I can chalk it up to the powder I think.  I will return tomorrow with results.

 

125's with n320

125's with WSF

and 100's with WSF

and my match loads with TG.....   Going to find out who the culprit is.... Also going to use another rifle with a shorter throat.

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just throwing this out ... it would help if you could give the OAL dimensions for your 95 grain loadings you report... a friend chrono"d some 95 grain Precision Deltas today with HS-6.... there was a consistent 100fps increase when the OAL was reduced by .075"... similarly if you could comment when using any concave base projectiles like the Montana Gold 95s when comparing them to flat base bullets... regards

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Les Snyder said:

just throwing this out ... it would help if you could give the OAL dimensions for your 95 grain loadings you report... a friend chrono"d some 95 grain Precision Deltas today with HS-6.... there was a consistent 100fps increase when the OAL was reduced by .075"... similarly if you could comment when using any concave base projectiles like the Montana Gold 95s when comparing them to flat base bullets... regards

 

These were some 100g plated non concave .356 dia Berry's bullets.    I don't like plated, and I wanted to play with 95g bullets but this was found local for cheap so I figured Id do some testing with it.  So results for today.

 

100g Berry's plated flat base loaded to 1.065OAL-   4.9g WSF  "  Fired 5 rounds before putting anything through chrono 10 ft from muzzle"

FPS:

1st string: 1190, 1173, 1248, 1176, 1232, 1166, 1246, 1176, 1228..   So,  I'm still seeing a 73 FPS ES,

Moved chrono into sun, was maybe slightly closer to chrono.

2nd string: 1243, 1272, 1256, 1309, 1279, 1150"not sure there but it felt weak", 1302.    still a 50 something spread but not terrible.

 

125g Coated with 3.8g WSF  @1.140

1050, 1059, 1049, 1055, 1035, 1070, 1040, 1042, 1054   SD 10,   131.4PF

 

125g Coated with 3.8G VVn320 @1.140

1112, 1121, 1100, 1105, 1106, 1123   SD: 13   139PF       It didn't pick up all 10 shots

 

Note on the 100g light bullet loads.   Cases WERE SUPER BLACK...   Like way worse than you would see with TiteGroup,  it was basically just a black thing the size of a piece of 9mm brass.  So... Not sure, not sure...  Accuracy was spectacular. Pasty size group @  20 yards.

 

 

 

Edited by jtrump

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I would see if you can get your hands on a lab radar or a magnetospeed.  I tried the cheap chronograph route for awhile.  I would say that with the SD's that you are getting, you are probably on par with the quality of chronograph.  I would think that you are much more consistent, but your chronograph is reading quite a bit off.  Also, are you weighing each individual load?  All the same brass manufacture? What brand primers are you using?   When I am loading for precision rifle to get single digit SDs I check all that stuff and weigh my brass.  Also using a less expensive bullet, I would weigh them to get maximum consistency.  

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13 hours ago, jtrump said:

 

Note on the 100g light bullet loads.   Cases WERE SUPER BLACK...   Like way worse than you would see with TiteGroup,  it was basically just a black thing the size of a piece of 9mm brass.  So... Not sure, not sure...  Accuracy was spectacular. Pasty size group @  20 yards.

 

 

 

 

You need to bring up the speed/pressure and the cases will seal better and clean up some.  You are at ~ 120PF as you are.

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2 hours ago, Jeremyc_1999 said:

I would see if you can get your hands on a lab radar or a magnetospeed.  I tried the cheap chronograph route for awhile.  I would say that with the SD's that you are getting, you are probably on par with the quality of chronograph.  I would think that you are much more consistent, but your chronograph is reading quite a bit off.  Also, are you weighing each individual load?  All the same brass manufacture? What brand primers are you using?   When I am loading for precision rifle to get single digit SDs I check all that stuff and weigh my brass.  Also using a less expensive bullet, I would weigh them to get maximum consistency.  

 

 

I used mixed brass,  I'm really not into precision and getting single digit SD's, while it is nice I don't believe it's necessary for our sport.   However when I'm getting a 200 FPS spread on loads it boggled me.   These are typical results with my chrono I'm generally fairly close to single digit SD which is ok for what I'm doing.

 

I would agree though some chorono's would provide better more consistent results.

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1 hour ago, L9X25 said:

 

You need to bring up the speed/pressure and the cases will seal better and clean up some.  You are at ~ 120PF as you are.

 

So I'm bumping up the powder charge then and things should seal up nicer and maybe straighten itself out?   I shot 25 rounds and it fed/felt great.  of course it was only 120-124pf and I'm typically around 140 so it would make sense.

 

I'm going to get some PD 95 grain bullets and continue to experiment,  with the results yesterday I believe my powder lot to be good, and I also believe that I should be able to get the load working.   Thanks everyone.

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I approached it from the other side, my loads were initially hotter than I wanted with WSF.  

 

However, when developing my Tite Group loads I duplicated Eric's load and it was WAY too slow in my barrel.  

I was at ~800 fps and the cases were black soot covered as if they had been in a fire.  I increased the powder charge and 

they became much cleaner.  Not that TG was ever clean.

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5 hours ago, L9X25 said:

I approached it from the other side, my loads were initially hotter than I wanted with WSF.  

 

However, when developing my Tite Group loads I duplicated Eric's load and it was WAY too slow in my barrel.  

I was at ~800 fps and the cases were black soot covered as if they had been in a fire.  I increased the powder charge and 

they became much cleaner.  Not that TG was ever clean.

 

I see,  I just guessed based off of our past results 4.9g with a 100g bullet should have put me in the ballpark... the second string was close'ish with some 1300 +'s in there..   I'm gonna bump it up to 5.4 and see where it's at an back down if needed.  It all depends on how much I'm getting per grain of wsf velocity wise which I'm guessing is going to be sub 30fps.   Worse case  it's a 140pf and I dial it back.   Maybe the cases won't look like black soot...

 

Now, should I go back to 1.100 OAL,   I really hate the idea of going lower than that.  

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2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Only change one thing at a time !

 

 

^ What he said and make small changes.  I would go up 2/10 gr and chrono again.  

 

I think that I am at ~27 fps per 1/10 gr with WSF and my 95's.  

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