Issue Shooting Left

[Captains1911]

I’m right-handed, shooting Glocks usually, and have been having an issue where almost all my hits are consistently dead left when shooting at speed. I’m a fairly experienced shooter (expert class IDPA), with solid fundamentals, but I’m almost positive this is a trigger control issue, I just can’t seem to correct it. I do lots of dry fire practice, with real guns and SIRT pistol, and as far as I can tell the muzzle isn’t moving left when I break the trigger. I’ve played with putting more trigger finger into the trigger guard, and adjusting strong/weak hand grip pressure, with zero results. 

 

Just to give an idea of the severity, today I was shooting an IDPA target at about 7 yards, and almost all my hits were were located in the left half side of the -0, elevation was fine. Very consistent, just left. 

 

Any ideas on how I might correct this would be appreciated. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Captains1911

[uewpew]

I'd start with confirming your sight windage zero is good...have a trusted "accurate" person shoot your gun if need be.  

 

If the zero is good... then it is you and focused practice is all you can do to fix it...

 

grip the gun as hard as you can, watch the sights, press the trigger straight back, keep watching the sights.  Be conscious of every action during the process and you'll find out what you're doing wrong. 

 

 

 

 

[Joe4d]

Probably need to post some pics of your grip and or some short vid clips,  but Assuming a modern wrist lock thumbs forward hold ? I am guessing you are letting your left elbow drop,. You ever shoot a bow ? You gotta kinda rotate your elbow out so it doesnt get filleted by the bow string,,,  Kinda do the same thing with your left elbow when you shoot, it will counter trigger torque. roll out the left elbow and apply pressure, also make sure u have full wrist extension and lock.  Your thumbs should be level and inline with your arm bones any way thats what works for me. YMMV
Another issue would be a habit of squeezing your entire hand instead of just the trigger, 
 

[Captains1911]

4 minutes ago, uewpew said:

I'd start with confirming your sight windage zero is good...have a trusted "accurate" person shoot your gun if need be.  

 

If the zero is good... then it is you and focused practice is all you can do to fix it...

 

grip the gun as hard as you can, watch the sights, press the trigger straight back, keep watching the sights.  Be conscious of every action during the process and you'll find out what you're doing wrong. 

 

 

 

 

The sights are zeroed, I can shoot tiny dead center groups all day if I take my time, it’s only when I shoot quickly that they start going left. 

[Captains1911]

9 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Probably need to post some pics of your grip and or some short vid clips,  but Assuming a modern wrist lock thumbs forward hold ? I am guessing you are letting your left elbow drop,. You ever shoot a bow ? You gotta kinda rotate your elbow out so it doesnt get filleted by the bow string,,,  Kinda do the same thing with your left elbow when you shoot, it will counter trigger torque. roll out the left elbow and apply pressure, also make sure u have full wrist extension and lock.  Your thumbs should be level and inline with your arm bones any way thats what works for me. YMMV
Another issue would be a habit of squeezing your entire hand instead of just the trigger, 
 

Yes, modern grip, thumbs forward, wrists locked. I’ll play with the left elbow torque, that’s a good idea. As for squeezing the entire hand, that’s possible, but I’m sure I’m not doing that when I dry fire.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Have you tried shooting a single action at speed ?   (STI or 1911 ) ?

[malobukov]

I'm having a similar problem with close targets. On distant targets I have enough time to see the front sight veer left and stop that movement.

 

It is less pronounced if I position my strong (right) hand so that more of the knuckle of the middle finger of the strong hand is under the trigger guard. I suspect that if it is a bit to the right, then I tend to push the gun to the left with it. The downside is that this position makes it harder to reach the mag release, so I'm still trying to find some compromise.

[uewpew]

19 hours ago, Captains1911 said:

The sights are zeroed, I can shoot tiny dead center groups all day if I take my time, it’s only when I shoot quickly that they start going left. 

 

Then you're doing something wrong...bad trigger control, flinching, etc...difficult to say what that is over the internet without watching you shoot, so here's Rob's take on the subject.

 

 

[sixsixnine]

1 hour ago, uewpew said:

 

Then you're doing something wrong...bad trigger control, flinching, etc...difficult to say what that is over the internet without watching you shoot, so here's Rob's take on the subject.

 

 

This right here.

 

The way to tell is to have someone randomly mix a few snap caps into a full mag, then go out and do a mag dump as fast as possible.

 

Guarantee there will be a pretty significant flinch in there somewhere. 

[tanks]

5 hours ago, sixsixnine said:

 

This right here.

 

The way to tell is to have someone randomly mix a few snap caps into a full mag, then go out and do a mag dump as fast as possible.

 

Guarantee there will be a pretty significant flinch in there somewhere. 

 

Except someone will have to watch to make sure it was before the shot instead of the act of bringing the gun down after the shot.

[sixsixnine]

16 hours ago, tanks said:

 

Except someone will have to watch to make sure it was before the shot instead of the act of bringing the gun down after the shot.

 

Video.

[Mercs]

I have this problem once in awhile and I attribute it to my grip, but haven’t pinpointed it yet. Sometimes after shooting for awhile or when shooting rapid strings, I group left. I relax my grip and focus on my trigger control at the break and just let the gun recoil, and i come right back to center. It still happens, and I’m not sure what I’m doing, but it’s something with my grip pressure. I’m also a righty. I noticed it seems to happen a bit more often on guns with smaller (less width) grips

 

 

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[TalkingMonkey]

I had this problem as well.  I'm generally pretty accurate, but during an IDPA practice session late last fall I noticed that all of my non-zero hits were to the left (I'm a righty).  I had an epiphany that I must have a trigger control issue that I didn't realize before.  It certainly felt like I was pulling the trigger straight back on my Glock, but the holes in the cardboard don't lie.  Since I felt l was pulling straight back but clearly wasn't, I figured I needed to overcompensate and try to curve my finger in and try to pull the trigger towards the right (this is what it felt like, but in reality, this was pulling straight back).  The first match after starting to work on this - zero down for the entire match, but only 5th overall because I had to slow down and concentrate on every trigger pull more than usual.  After working on it all Winter in dry-fire, it feels much more natural now and I don't have to think about it nearly as much.  Relearning those motor pathways takes time, but so far it's been worth it.

[lgh]

On 6/26/2018 at 10:25 AM, TalkingMonkey said:

I figured I needed to overcompensate and try to curve my finger in and try to pull the trigger towards the right (this is what it felt like, but in reality, this was pulling straight back). 

Are you saying you literally curved your finger and put the tip on the trigger? You can achieve the same thing by just putting more finger on the trigger. i.e. first knuckle on the trigger instead of finger tip.

 

[TalkingMonkey]

On 6/27/2018 at 11:45 AM, lgh said:

Are you saying you literally curved your finger and put the tip on the trigger? You can achieve the same thing by just putting more finger on the trigger. i.e. first knuckle on the trigger instead of finger tip.

 

Not literally.  I started pulling the trigger such that it felt like i was pulling the outer left side of the trigger toward the right rear edge of the grip.  Mind you, that's just what it felt like, but in reality, I was now actually pulling straight back.  I had to exaggerate the pull to the right because what I thought was straight back, wasn't.  In other words, I had to trick my finger into relearning was straight back meant by overcompensating initially. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by TalkingMonkey

[Mercs]

Not literally.  I started pulling the trigger such that it felt like i was pulling the outer left side of the trigger toward the right rear edge of the grip.  Mind you, that's just what it felt like, but in reality, I was now actually pulling straight back.  I had to exaggerate the pull to to right because what I thought was straight back, wasn't.  In other words, I had to trick my finger into relearning was straight back meant by overcompensating initially. 

I will give this a try. I think I have the same issue, in that pulling straight back (my perception) isn’t really straight back. Ah the wonders of the human brain


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[TalkingMonkey]

2 minutes ago, Mercs said:

I will give this a try. I think I have the same issue, in that pulling straight back (my perception) isn’t really straight back. Ah the wonders of the human brain


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When I first started the relearning process, I found that my finger would get fatigued pretty quickly with the new pulling direction.  I have a pretty strong grip from years of deadlifting but using my finger in this way was pretty weak.  If you think about gripping a bar, your whole finger curls inward.  I think that since this is movement I am strong in, it's what I was reverting to when shooting fast and ultimately caused shots to get pushed left.  It has taken a lot of dry fire to strengthen the correct motor pathways and not rotate the index finger's proximal phalanx inward while pulling the trigger.

[Mercs]

When I first started the relearning process, I found that my finger would get fatigued pretty quickly with the new pulling direction.  I have a pretty strong grip from years of deadlifting but using my finger in this way was pretty weak.  If you think about gripping a bar, your whole finger curls inward.  I think that since this is movement I am strong in, it's what I was reverting to when shooting fast and ultimately caused shots to get pushed left.  It has taken a lot of dry fire to strengthen the correct motor pathways and not rotate the index finger's proximal phalanx inward while pulling the trigger.

Amazing this works for me as well!!! I used your methodology at the range today and shot dead straight! I also have a very strong grip, and noticed I’m using different muscles and it gets tiring when I’m doing it right. I’m gonna keep working on it until I can rapid fire with the same consistent stroke, it’s a little difficult at first. I had to say thanks so much for sharing!


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[TalkingMonkey]

17 hours ago, Mercs said:

Amazing this works for me as well!!! I used your methodology at the range today and shot dead straight! I also have a very strong grip, and noticed I’m using different muscles and it gets tiring when I’m doing it right. I’m gonna keep working on it until I can rapid fire with the same consistent stroke, it’s a little difficult at first. I had to say thanks so much for sharing!


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This makes me very happy - thanks for letting us know!  Glad it worked for you!

[Yoder]

I have the exact same issue.  I figured I was putting my trigger finger too far into the trigger and this was pushing the gun left.  I also shoot a Glock and it only happens at speed.  I'll have to give this a try.  I was also thinking of trying to adjust my draw to where I roll my hand slightly toward my body before grabbing the gun.  I thought this little bit of rotation might put the pad of my finger on the trigger instead of hitting closer to the first joint.  I have a match this weekend so I'm not going to mess with it until after.  

[stick]

Have you tried putting a quarter on top of the front sight during dry fire to ensure you are pulling the trigger straight back?  The quarter will fall left if you are moving the gun as you pull the trigger.

[MemphisMechanic]

Sometimes a large portion of the fix is the simplest: Grip like a gorilla with your left (support) hand.

 

Back when I was an “experienced” shooter way down at IDPA Expert level but thought I knew a great deal, I wasn’t using nearly enough grip with either hand. (For reference, an IDPA EX can barely make C class in USPSA.)

 

... but IDPA shooters don’t get the same level of instruction from GM-level guys on their squad, because we don’t have anyone at that skill level in IDPA. So education on this stuff suffers.

 

What’s happening is that when you pull the trigger slowly, your right hand stays loose. When shooting fast you punch the trigger back with a sharp contraction, and the other three fingers of that hand contract sympathetically - torquing the gun.

 

Grip very firmly with the strong hand (you already think you do. Double what you think firm is.) Grip just below enough force to lock your index finger up. With your bottom three fingers already squeezing tight around the grip, next time you won’t be able to contract them much more when punching the trigger twice fast on a 3 yd target. They’re already contracted.  

 

More importantly, try to crush your gun into a  pancake with your weak hand. Crush grip. Break the bones in the dude’s hand that you’re shaking... whichever description like that works for you.

 

This will clamp the gun into place hard enough that bad trigger habits don’t affect it quite as much.

And even better, your group size on something like a bill drill will be half of what it was. The sights will stabilize between shots so much better because your wrists and forearms are tight, and the hands don’t allow any shifting of the gun.

 

After you get your grip sorted, THEN work on pulling the trigger superfast and superdirty in dryfire... without your gun moving. But the grip adjustment comes first.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by MemphisMechanic