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Cgoliver970

Improve trigger speed?

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22 minutes ago, TimH said:

Please forgive my questioning or ignorance, but why?

 

If you're shooting at speeds based on what the sights tell you for every single shot, you're shooting fast enough. As you see more and earlier, your shot speed will improve also. 

 

Just seems like you're going to be spending time on a technique thats more "gimmicky" than productive. I encourage you to really weigh the benefits of this vs. working on things that will progress you sooner and are more beneficial.

 

...but I'm just spitballin' here. What do I know?      *shrugs*

 

I don't have a problem at all with the idea of working on splits, but I do think the way he has outlined to do it is unnecessary, overly complicated, and not of much use to the rest of his game. I get the idea of low hanging fruit and diminishing returns, but I'm a big believer that all things must be worked on all the time. I think he can achieve what he is after through accentuating trigger pull speed in dry fire rather than going through an index finger strength and conditioning program (lol). Operating the trigger in dry fire at the speeds we're talking that would improve overall trigger speed also brings along the added training stimulus for the grip of less than perfect trigger manipulation which is something that is likely to happen on match day as I've heard you and the boys talk about a few times. It provides a good and consistent opportunity to develop the grip to keep the gun on target even when you are pulling the trigger at a speed where the line is force is not straight back to the rear of the gun and as you suggested, vision is still totally in play. This seems to me like a more reasonable course of action unlike the plan he hatched to increase index finger fast twitch muscle fiber density. Another benefit of this is that it checks the box that says practice must happen at an intensity which exceeds anything you could possibly need or see on match day.

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Don't say dumb.  Your idea wasn't dumb.  Posting the idea led to some guidance and a pretty decent discussion.  Keep 'em coming!

 

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On 6/12/2018 at 4:18 PM, Cgoliver970 said:

Guys, thank you for the feedback. Dumb idea, I am over it. 

 

You never know if you don't ask or talk about it.  Fortunately in this game there are some really solid publications on proven training techniques along with videos/dvds and podcasts.

 

If you want a more "tailored" training regimen, post up here and ask. If you want to create you own, get a few books & write it down.

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Try a metronome? I think this is mentioned here somewhere by a few people, eventually you will get quicker splits.

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The problem with a metronome is that even if it does 300 bpm, that's "only" .2 splits 

 

I have a metronome - it's good for transition timing, not so much for splits ...

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One of the most important aspects of firing accuracy is the trigger pull. Here are some tips for bettering your trigger pull technique: 

  • Adust your Stock
  • Right Grip
  • Try different hand positions
  • Dry firing Practice
  • And also Practice makes Perfect.

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Try to grip harder with your left hand and allow your right hand to relax more.  

 

Also try clicking a pen while watching tv or something.  

 

That can help speed it up

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According to me, For the improvement of the trigger, you should maintain your trigger grip in a controllable recoil with speed and accuracy for precision shooting. And one more thing always adjust your stock.

 

images (1).jpg

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I have heard about the clicking a pen exercise; does anyone know if that really helps? 

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On 11/21/2018 at 1:20 AM, breekarms said:

According to me, For the improvement of the trigger, you should maintain your trigger grip in a controllable recoil with speed and accuracy for precision shooting. And one more thing always adjust your stock.

 

images (1).jpg

 

Are those CZ triggers?

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I once sent off a .11 split during speed steel with a stock Glock 19, but ended up getting second because my transitions were slower. A fast trigger finger is only as good as the recoil management and sight tracking, which I guess would be null with some of the Open guns I've shot. 

 

The question echos: could you be accurate with a .16 split? If not, your splits times may not matter.

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I think relative trigger speed can be enhanced, whether shooting a compensated race gun or a Production gun...….however, the type of trigger may have a factor on how you eventually optimize your trigger speed.  A compensated STI 2011 race gun with a good trigger that breaks at 2.0 lbs. and has a safe but short re-set, and minimal  over-travel is a big advantage to control the sights and breaking the shot without disturbing sight alignment...….  conducting Bill Drills at various distances will help to determine how fast you can break the trigger with good shots at various targets down range...…  At one time I would conduct Bill Drills at 7, 10, and 15 yard targets...….and the split times would be slower when shooting at the longer distances......

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I got my splits into the .15 range by doing a TON of bill drills, that being said I think it is much more important to focus on transition times, will stack up to more time off a run typically by cutting down on that time rather than the time between trigger pulls

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Personally, I like TGO's YouTube with Action Targets.

 

Look to his 3 second par time drill.  Very interesting.  

First, you get a sense of your comfort zone

Second, it pushes the limits of your comfort zone

Third, there are some diagnostics on errors

 

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Rob Leatham and Daniel Shaw had an excellent pod cast on trigger manipulation that talks about a unique way of executing the trigger pull cycle.  To summarize, the tripper pull cycle does not start prior to taking the slack out of the trigger prior to reaching the wall - rather, taking the slack out and reaching the wall is at the end of the trigger pull cycle so that the next cycle begins with only enough pressure required to break the sear connection.   The podcast does a better job explaining this.

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I’ve been doing a lot of bill drills and that seems to be hlelng

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relax strong hand and shoot bill drill. When 0.15s or faster split happened,  feel and try to repeat, and make it happen again

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I made an improvement yesterday on trigger pull speed by briefly focusing on releasing the trigger instead of pulling the trigger. Reviewing my match videos in super slow motion I could see I have a strong pin-and-reset habit. I started attacking this in dry fire by making the trigger release part of the trigger pull.

 

For example I always have viewed a  single trigger press as placing my finger on the trigger, moving it through the take up to the wall, and then breaking the shot. I am fundamentally changing that idea now and I think of a trigger press as the act of placing my finger on the trigger, pressing it to the rear until it breaks and releasing my finger off the trigger.

 

Just as an example of how horrible my splits are, the first time I tried shooting bill drills I had splits in the 0.3X's, and in my latest match video I'm seeing 0.4X's to 0.5X's. Yesterday after working with this new trigger pull concept I was able to shoot several back-to-back bill drills with splits in the 0.17-0.21 range. These numbers are with a stock M&P trigger, if that matters.

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2 minutes ago, jmtyndall said:

I made an improvement yesterday on trigger pull speed by briefly focusing on releasing the trigger instead of pulling the trigger. Reviewing my match videos in super slow motion I could see I have a strong pin-and-reset habit. I started attacking this in dry fire by making the trigger release part of the trigger pull.

 

For example I always have viewed a  single trigger press as placing my finger on the trigger, moving it through the take up to the wall, and then breaking the shot. I am fundamentally changing that idea now and I think of a trigger press as the act of placing my finger on the trigger, pressing it to the rear until it breaks and releasing my finger off the trigger.

 

Just as an example of how horrible my splits are, the first time I tried shooting bill drills I had splits in the 0.3X's, and in my latest match video I'm seeing 0.4X's to 0.5X's. Yesterday after working with this new trigger pull concept I was able to shoot several back-to-back bill drills with splits in the 0.17-0.21 range. These numbers are with a stock M&P trigger, if that matters.

 

Awesome stuff. Will give that a try.

 

I’m completely stuck at 20’s with a 19 tosses in periodically even on close targets. 

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1 minute ago, Paulie said:

 

Awesome stuff. Will give that a try.

 

I’m completely stuck at 20’s with a 19 tosses in periodically even on close targets. 

One thing I've noticed is helpful is to strip out anything that isn't important to what I'm working on. If I want to pull the trigger fast, pull the target in to 3 yards. Grip the gun just how you normally would but then ignore the sights. Rip off 6 shots into the target as fast as you can. Don't think, don't control the sights or anything. Your mind is just an observer watching and feeling your body shoot at that speed. Once you hit the speed goal you're aiming for a couple of times re-engage your mind, see your sights and start fixing what fell apart without changing the speed.

 

Hopefully that doesn't sound like some hippie bull-****, but that's literally what I did yesterday to make those changes to my split times. I've also used this technique to improve my draw speed. Maybe that can help someone too.

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23 hours ago, jmtyndall said:

One thing I've noticed is helpful is to strip out anything that isn't important to what I'm working on. If I want to pull the trigger fast, pull the target in to 3 yards. Grip the gun just how you normally would but then ignore the sights. Rip off 6 shots into the target as fast as you can. Don't think, don't control the sights or anything. Your mind is just an observer watching and feeling your body shoot at that speed. Once you hit the speed goal you're aiming for a couple of times re-engage your mind, see your sights and start fixing what fell apart without changing the speed.

 

Hopefully that doesn't sound like some hippie bull-****, but that's literally what I did yesterday to make those changes to my split times. I've also used this technique to improve my draw speed. Maybe that can help someone too.

 

I have done this exact same technique on multiple skills and it works awesome!! I personally learned this from Steve Anderson and he calls it "speed mode". Everytime I incorporate this learning technique it amazes me.

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On the plus side....   Sexy fast splits get the Instagram girls all worked up and moist...  Other that that... as the great sasquatch told me once... "Shoot as fast as your sights let you" 

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The fastest I can reach is about 0.10 / 0.11 and changing the disconnector helped (Shadow2). Lately I've had many more trigger freezes than ever before. I believe the tension is too high (in the strong hand) since I'm using the pin & reset method. 

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I, too, do the "bumpfire" thing that someone mentioned earlier.  You can get some crazy fast splits doing that, but my grip has to be mush in order to pull it off.  I don't think I've ever done it on a target past 5 yards.  On a side note, my splits sped up a bit when I started using the very tip of my finger to pull the trigger rather than the first joint.  I assume it's because the finger needs to pivot through a smaller arc in order to move the tip by the same amount compared to the first joint.

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