jejb Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 So I'll get my question in first. For those that own one already, how wide is the base of the XL 650? Not the mounting screw holes, but the full width of the mounting foot? I really struggled with the decision to buy a Hornady LNL or an XL 650. Been researching it hard for a couple of weeks. I already own both shotgun and pistol (older RCBS 5 station) progressive presses and have many 10's of 1000's of rounds through each. Only upgrading to get case feeder ability. The quick change bushings and lower cost to convert to different calibers on the LNL are very attractive, since I load multiple calibers. I can get accessories for the LNL (as well as the unit itself) at local stores, where pretty much everything will be mail order for the Dillon. What made the decision for me in the end was that most people that owned both kept saying that the LNL needed a lot of tweaking, even after it had been dialed in. Things like indexing pawls getting out of time, primer feed issues, etc. Tons of info on tweaks that needed to be done to make it more reliable. It just seems like it's somewhat temperamental. There is also lots of info on making the 650 better, too. But it seems like once folks get the Dillon dialed in, its solid and rarely needs any adjusting. "It just works" is something I hear and read a lot about the blue presses. My RCBS is pretty solid, but the powder feed actuator can be fussy at times, so the "it just works" thing appeals to me. One thing that did not make my decision though is cost. I kept reading about the LNL being cheaper. But the case feeder is part of the package no matter which way I went. The bare press price is about $140 in favor of the LNL, but the Hornady case feeder is over $100 more. And then you have to buy a $32 index plate for it, where the Dillon comes with it. And the 650 comes with the 9mm shell plate that I'd have to pay an extra $32 for with the LNL. So the Dillon cost me $810 before taxes (ordered from a local shop) where the LNL would have been $859 before taxes at our local Cabela's. So price didn't sway me one way or the other. Anyway, looking forward to getting it all working next week and hopefully not have to spend quite as much time in the reloading room as I am now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 my buddy found the quick change bushing were like $3.50 a piece x5 so 17 bucks give or take... a 650 tool head is 30 bucks(or less)... so 13 bucks... meh thats a wash as far as I am concerned on caliber change over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 When people discuss the cost of the Dillon (vs any other machine) I point out my 650 is over $20 years old, I've had the use of it for all those years, and I could sell it tomorrow for a lot more than I paid for it. You can't say that about a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Yeah, that's another point in Dillon's favor. They hold their value VERY well. Which probably speaks volumes about how good a loader they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 I got the loader yesterday, and got it all setup. Loaded 25 and went to the range with them to be sure there were no issues, which there were not. It will take some time to get used to, coming off 20+ years of loading with my RCBS progressive. Lots of tricks to learn. I have to say I'm not fond of the primer feed being a wheel instead of a sliding tray. Impossible to see when the primers run out. Just have to adapt to feeling it, I guess. But that's about my only complaint so far. Case feeder works well. Press action is a little clunky at times, but I'm guessing it will break in the more I use it. My RCBS dies work fine in the Dillon, including the powder checker. Leaves me an empty die spot, since the RCBS bullet seater also crimps. Maybe a bullet feeder will work it's way into the mix soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExStreetWalker Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 When the primer alarm goes off I have 12 primers left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 jejb, Umm, there is a follower you put in the primer tube after dumping primers in that will bottom out when the tube is empty. If you have the primer alarm it will buzz when the follower bottoms out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yep, thanks, I'm aware of that. And mine came stock with the alarm. But there are still a lot of primers in the works after the alarm sounds, 12 or so, according the poster above you. My biggest issue is you can't see if the next space in the primer plate has a primer in it, because it's blocked by the shell plate and the bullet case. So you never know the plate is empty until you don't feel a primer seat. But I'll learn to live with it, I'm sure. Just a place where it's a step backwards from my RCBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 37 minutes ago, jejb said: Yep, thanks, I'm aware of that. And mine came stock with the alarm. But there are still a lot of primers in the works after the alarm sounds, 12 or so, according the poster above you. My biggest issue is you can't see if the next space in the primer plate has a primer in it, because it's blocked by the shell plate and the bullet case. So you never know the plate is empty until you don't feel a primer seat. But I'll learn to live with it, I'm sure. Just a place where it's a step backwards from my RCBS. You have to learn the numbers game with the 650. Yes there are primers left when the alarm sounds. What I do is put a rubber o-ring or bushing on my follower rod so it activates the primer alarm to coincide with a full tube from the case feeder. When it is set up right the alarm will sound, you switch off the case feeder and primers and cases run out at the same time. You can definitely feel the instant there is no primer being seated so thats a non issue to me. I have found having cases feeding when you don't need or want them to is a much bigger concern than it is for primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Yeah, I was going to gripe about the shell feeder not quitting too. But I found the following on YT this morning. I have some .357 brass laying around anyway, so this works like a charm! Easy and free solution. Thanks for the tip, though. Maybe I can use it in a different way. Edited May 31, 2018 by jejb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 54 minutes ago, jejb said: Yeah, I was going to gripe about the shell feeder not quitting too. But I found the following on YT this morning. I have some .357 brass laying around anyway, so this works like a charm! Easy and free solution. Thanks for the tip, though. Maybe I can use it in a different way. Blah blah blah, I have never seen a more boring video in my life. LOL Yeah, there are ways to shut things off but in truth within a few months of using the 650 you will figure out to do without most of it. I only stop things when I am at the end of a loading session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The cap end of a hotel ball point pen works pretty well also. I am just not sure I could make this into a four minute video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yeah, I agree it was kind of long winded to show that info. But I was happy enough to have an easy solution to the issue, I let it slide. 44 mag brass works, too, but it is a tad snug. I change powder type and charge weights fairly often, so being able to quickly disable the primer and shell feeders is a big deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExStreetWalker Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 6 hours ago, jejb said: Yeah, I was going to gripe about the shell feeder not quitting too. But I found the following on YT this morning. I have some .357 brass laying around anyway, so this works like a charm! Easy and free solution. Thanks for the tip, though. Maybe I can use it in a different way. 10 seconds of information in a 4:00 video. About right for youturd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 The answer to my original question, in case anyone is looking at this thread in the future, is the base is 4.75" wide and 4.5" deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I got the loader yesterday, and got it all setup. Loaded 25 and went to the range with them to be sure there were no issues, which there were not. It will take some time to get used to, coming off 20+ years of loading with my RCBS progressive. Lots of tricks to learn. I have to say I'm not fond of the primer feed being a wheel instead of a sliding tray. Impossible to see when the primers run out. Just have to adapt to feeling it, I guess. But that's about my only complaint so far. Case feeder works well. Press action is a little clunky at times, but I'm guessing it will break in the more I use it. My RCBS dies work fine in the Dillon, including the powder checker. Leaves me an empty die spot, since the RCBS bullet seater also crimps. Maybe a bullet feeder will work it's way into the mix soon.Learning primer feel on the 650 is awesome. I can pull rounds that have worn primer pockets based on the feel of how the primer seats. When I get around to disassembling the round I can usually remove the primer by hand using a metal punch.My 1050 seats on the down stroke. The ability to detect primer pocket issues is lost. I only use the 1050 for 223 due to the crimp removal feature. Otherwise I prefer the 650.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 11 hours ago, jejb said: ...Press action is a little clunky at times... Part of the clunkiness is the bell crank assembly on the powder measure...in my opinion. You can do a google search for "Dillon powder measure retrograde" or do a search here for like "retrograde". It would be handy to have a drill press and vise. And you will have to order the two springs from Dillon that wrap around the the powder measure which ensure the powder bar snaps closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 10 hours ago, L3324temp said: Learning primer feel on the 650 is awesome. I can pull rounds that have worn primer pockets based on the feel of how the primer seats. When I get around to disassembling the round I can usually remove the primer by hand using a metal punch. The primer feel is very much the same as the RCBS I'm used to, so the learning curve will be pretty short on that. But I've never had to depend on it to tell me the primers are finished, so building up trust in it is taking a bit of time. I loaded 300 or so rounds with it yesterday, and we're getting along better. But the last few are time consuming until I build up my confidence with emptying the primers. That part really could have been done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Chills1994 said: Part of the clunkiness is the bell crank assembly on the powder measure...in my opinion. You can do a google search for "Dillon powder measure retrograde" or do a search here for like "retrograde". It would be handy to have a drill press and vise. And you will have to order the two springs from Dillon that wrap around the the powder measure which ensure the powder bar snaps closed. Thanks, I'll check into that. I have a drill press, vice, etc. I rebuild motorcycle motors and maintain everything from our weed eater to our diesel pusher, so am very well tooled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTaylor Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Actual mount that touches the bench is 5”x5”Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvincent Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 When the follower rod hits the alarm, you dump in 100 primers. Rinse and repeat. Works every single time, no need to guess or feel whether there’s a primer in the disc. If you want to empty the tube, just click the primer arm by hand till it’s empty. When filling the tube, and no case in station 1, click the arm 6 times, then start pulling the handle. you’ll have a primer ready for the first case. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 hours ago, cvincent said: When the follower rod hits the alarm, you dump in 100 primers. Rinse and repeat. Works every single time, no need to guess or feel whether there’s a primer in the disc. If you want to empty the tube, just click the primer arm by hand till it’s empty. When filling the tube, and no case in station 1, click the arm 6 times, then start pulling the handle. you’ll have a primer ready for the first case. I know I could to that, and maybe I will at some point. But I'm used to being able to load EXACLTY in increments of 100, so I can fill my shell boxes and not be short or long any cartridges or primers. It is so easy to do that with the RCBS, but not as easy with the Dillon. Has made me maybe a bit OCD about it, I guess. I'm trying to nail down my count of primers left after the alarm goes off. A poster above said his is 12, mine seems to 14. After I get that set in stone, I think dumping in another 100 will be the way to go, and just do a count down each time. It's already getting less clunky. I pulled another 300 through it yesterday and tweaked a couple of things. It's a nice loader, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjacobs Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I agree with cvincnet that during a reloading session, I just load another 100 and roll on, BUT i load in 500-1000 round batches and all my loaded rounds get dumped in bulk in an ammo can. When I am completely finished loading. When my primer alarm goes off I shut off the case feeder. I keep loading as usual until I dont feel a primer seat. Then I pull the case feed tube out and dump those cases back in the case feeder. I then remove the case from station 2, station 1, etc... and finish off my loading. Its so easy to pull a case from station 2 with the little spring loaded arm there. IMO no reason to "count" or whatever... Dont feel a primer, pull the case, empty the rest, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejb Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 Thanks, I do get the feeling the Dillon is meant more for bulk loading than just doing 100 at a time. But I guess I'm too picky to just dump them in an ammo can, I guess. I feel like I need to inspect the primer seating on each shell, and get an exact count. Putting them in boxes lets me do both of those things. The RCBS taught me to inspect primers and it seems to be true on the Dillon also. I've had a couple not seat far enough (sticking half way out, which could have been operator error) and 3-4 like this now (which NEVER happened on the RCBS): I'm really surprised the primer system can flip them on their sides like that and not jam up. I've been loading primers in tubes for 20+ years, so that operation is not new to me. They are getting put in the reloader the correct way, so the Dillon is flipping them somehow. I'm sure hoping that settles down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, jejb said: Thanks, I do get the feeling the Dillon is meant more for bulk loading than just doing 100 at a time. But I guess I'm too picky to just dump them in an ammo can, I guess. I feel like I need to inspect the primer seating on each shell, and get an exact count. Putting them in boxes lets me do both of those things. The RCBS taught me to inspect primers and it seems to be true on the Dillon also. I've had a couple not seat far enough (sticking half way out, which could have been operator error) and 3-4 like this now (which NEVER happened on the RCBS): I'm really surprised the primer system can flip them on their sides like that and not jam up. I've been loading primers in tubes for 20+ years, so that operation is not new to me. They are getting put in the reloader the correct way, so the Dillon is flipping them somehow. I'm sure hoping that settles down. Make sure the primer mag is fully locked in place and is the correct size. Other than that primers flip after they come out of the tube because of the bench shaking. If your bench is not rock solid they will flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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