Dot movement on a Glock 17

[ArrDave]

So I'm trying out Carry Optics - switching after a few years on the CZ shadows - obviously grip and trigger is a new ball game from what I'm used to.  The dot, jumps up and to the right, at about a 60 degree angle on recoil.  Does this mean I'm overpowering the gun on the left side?  Should I look at less force out of my support hand?  Is it more force out of my strong hand? 

 

I've already gone through that "ah ha!" moment on "gripping the gun hard" twice now - maybe a piece of info for you worth considering - but the question stands -what do I need to do to make the dot jump straight up and down?

[lgh]

Yeah, that happens. Experiment. There is renewed enthusiasm for the old "trigger on the front of the trigger guard" and that might help. Elbows higher can help. Even try the ol'  "push-pull" technique popularized with the Weaver stance and used by Eric Grauffel (from an isoceles stance).  And measure your splits/accuraacy so you know when something actually helps. The dot reveals a whole lot of stuff irons didn't and so you might be seeing stuff that was always there.

[CDRGlock]

So I'm trying out Carry Optics - switching after a few years on the CZ shadows - obviously grip and trigger is a new ball game from what I'm used to.  The dot, jumps up and to the right, at about a 60 degree angle on recoil.  Does this mean I'm overpowering the gun on the left side?  Should I look at less force out of my support hand?  Is it more force out of my strong hand? 
 
I've already gone through that "ah ha!" moment on "gripping the gun hard" twice now - maybe a piece of info for you worth considering - but the question stands -what do I need to do to make the dot jump straight up and down?

Isosceles stance and grip.

My elbows are out. Hands like a clamshell, gripping with the left hand more than right. Thumbs forward. Shoulders forward.


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[ArrDave]

4 minutes ago, CDRGlock said:

 

Isosceles stance and grip.

My elbows are out. Hands like a clamshell, gripping with the left hand more than right. Thumbs forward. Shoulders forward.


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you've described my approach to a T.  Up and to the right. 

[ArrDave]

8 minutes ago, lgh said:

Yeah, that happens. Experiment. There is renewed enthusiasm for the old "trigger on the front of the trigger guard" and that might help. Elbows higher can help. Even try the ol'  "push-pull" technique popularized with the Weaver stance and used by Eric Grauffel (from an isoceles stance).  And measure your splits/accuraacy so you know when something actually helps. The dot reveals a whole lot of stuff irons didn't and so you might be seeing stuff that was always there.

I have no doubt that this may have always been there.  I also noticed that a lot of my missing left is not related to trigger control but rather on presentation if I'm not truly squared to the target I'll present left then have to center it up.  So far I'm loving the feedback the dot is giving me. 

[lgh]

34 minutes ago, ArrDave said:

I have no doubt that this may have always been there.  I also noticed that a lot of my missing left is not related to trigger control but rather on presentation if I'm not truly squared to the target I'll present left then have to center it up.  So far I'm loving the feedback the dot is giving me. 

The dot is great for learning things. One other thing that is unrelated to your original question. With Glocks, a lot of people report needing more finger on the trigger to get decent accuracy and correct the "shooting left" problem. i.e. Shooting off the first knuckle (like a DA revolver) and not the finger tip (like a SA) works better. Definitely worth trying if you have that issue.

[ArrDave]

1 minute ago, lgh said:

The dot is great for learning things. One other thing that is unrelated to your original question. With Glocks, a lot of people report needing more finger on the trigger to get decent accuracy and correct the "shooting left" problem. i.e. Shooting off the first knuckle (like a DA revolver) and not the finger tip (like a SA) works better. Definitely worth trying if you have that issue.

I'm lucky I guess - I shot left - went to CZ - came back and can shoot straight, addressing the trigger similar to how I do my CZs, which is basically with my finger tip. 

[DKorn]

Here’s a question: if the dot jumps up and right in recoil, but then returns to the same place every time, is this a problem? As long as the recoil pattern is consistent and predictable and the gun returns to the same spot every time, who cares where it goes first?

[ArrDave]

I would assume that up and down would be preferred to minimize the chance of missing L/R on tuxedos - I've just always heard GM dot guys talk about the dot moving up and down - figured it was desirable.

[wtturn]

2 hours ago, ArrDave said:

So I'm trying out Carry Optics - switching after a few years on the CZ shadows - obviously grip and trigger is a new ball game from what I'm used to.  The dot, jumps up and to the right, at about a 60 degree angle on recoil.  Does this mean I'm overpowering the gun on the left side?  Should I look at less force out of my support hand?  Is it more force out of my strong hand? 

 

I've already gone through that "ah ha!" moment on "gripping the gun hard" twice now - maybe a piece of info for you worth considering - but the question stands -what do I need to do to make the dot jump straight up and down?

 

I don't think that's ever the answer.

[ArrDave]

1 minute ago, wtturn said:

 

I don't think that's ever the answer.

how did your dot track when you messed with it?

[wtturn]

More or less straight up and down, maybe a slight right bias.

 

I treat the hump (or swell) on the Glock backstrap like I presume you do a palmswell on a set of LOK grips.  My support hand fills that area and creates some front-to-back clamping action in addition to the side-to-side clamping action.  

 

I have the sensation that my strong hand is filling all the available grip on the right side of the gun, creating strong pinching action between the frontstrap and backstrap, except for my trigger finger, which rides the frame and pivots off the second knuckle into the trigger.  My support hand fills ALL the remaining space, giving the sensation that I'm "hooking" what's left of the backstrap with the meat of my thumb and creating more front-to-back clamping pressure while slightly torqueing support hand in toward the bore.  It almost feels like 4-dimensional grip pressure with my support hand, if that makes sense.  In my mind, the support hand is making as much friction as possible against the frame. 

 

It may be valuable to conceptualize that front-to-back pressure as a higher priority to the side-to-side pressure and see if that makes a difference.  I wonder if that's what Grauffel means by push/pull...

[wtturn]

Take a look at where I have most heavily textured the frame. That area is what gets the most pressure and attention and the spot I find most important in my grip. The triangular patch up top sees the highest force per square inch + friction out of my whole grip.

[ArrDave]

17 minutes ago, wtturn said:

Take a look at where I have most heavily textured the frame. That area is what gets the most pressure and attention and the spot I find most important in my grip. The triangular patch up top sees the highest force per square inch + friction out of my whole grip.

 

That was exactly how I gripped my Shadows - it's harder to do on the Glock - I probably need grip tape in exactly the same spot.

[Ssanders224]

36 minutes ago, wtturn said:

 

I don't think that's ever the answer.

 

Yea, this.  Squeeze the crap out of it.  You can see the two areas where pro-grip is embedded into the silicon carbide... those spots are where the meat of my support hand contacts the gun and bares down.  Those two spots probably get more pressure than any other spot on the grip. 

[ArrDave]

1 minute ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Yea, this.  Squeeze the crap out of it.  You can see the two areas where pro-grip is embedded into the silicon carbide... those spots are where the meat of my support hand contacts the gun and bares down.  Those two spots probably get more pressure than any other spot on the grip. 

 

Those are some good looking slide serrations

[Ssanders224]

34 minutes ago, ArrDave said:

Those are some good looking slide serrations

 Thanks.  I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out.  The cuts are Frank Proctors design, cut by Fire4Effect Weapons Systems. 

They are grippy. 

[dc101620]

Make sure you’re locking them wrists. I know I’ve been forgetting to


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[sweatpants]

Travis MacCamish did a cool video that may help you.

 

 

[mlmiller1]

Heres something you might try... .

Hold your glock just tight enough so you dont limp wrist.  Fire a shot, is it tracking straight up & down?  If not, make adjustments to your grip.   If it is, apply a slightly firmer grip.  Fire a shot.  Still straight?  More firm grip, fire a shot.  When it starts going at an angle, then experiment with what it takes to keep it going straight up & down.  Build on that until you have good recoil management & it goes straight up & down.