Primary optic fell right off the PCC today

[Silverscooby27]

So today, my wife's Vortex Razor on Picatinny mount attached to the Vortex AR riser MT-5108 fell right off the gun during a stage.  Luckily, there was a timer malfunction so she got a reshoot, but this was very disappointing and embarrassing.  I think something is wrong with the MT-5108 and I am sending it back to Vortex.  For anyone with experience with these mounts, is the riser even necessary?  It seems to me that it will allow you to have your head more upright/will align with your eye better to get in position quicker, so it will be useful.  Is the QD feature even useful?  It seems to me that if you take it on and off for whatever reason, it will probably not be zeroed properly anymore so is that a useless feature?  Finally, does anyone have any suggestions for a mount that is appropriate height that will work for this that is higher quality?  Thanks for your advice.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Silverscooby27

[BartCarter]

I have 4 Vortex AR QR risers and have never had a problem.  I don't see if they are mounted properly how they could be loose, let alone fall off.  Is the riser mounted/adjusted properly?

[Silverscooby27]

Yes. Mounted and adjusted properly. 

[stick]

The QD will hold zero.  You can take it off and put it back on and the gun will stay zeroed.

I have never seen one come loose and fall off.  Are you sure it was mounted correctly?

[Silverscooby27]

For the third time now, I am sure it was mounted correctly. Thanks guys, I’m just sending it back to Vortex. You can close this thread if you want.

[sfinney]

Hi, to beat a dead horse.... you do have to adjust the QD part of the mount to fit snugly to your rail. They may not lock on securely out of the box, without adjustment. Without enough tension on the lever, it can pop open... and the optic falls off.

Are you sure it was mounted adjusted properly? 

 

 

Sorry just had to do it.

[dkamps]

Yes risers are useful. Proper neck position eases strain and stress, resulting in better shooting for longer periods with less fatigue.

 

Ive never seen a properly adjusted QD mount fall off. Double and triple check..

 

I use blue Loctite and basically anything being attached on my rifles that wont come off regularly.

[goldfish]

I use blue Loctite and basically anything being attached on my rifles that wont come off regularly.

 

I do the same just like dkamps said for any accessory that is specifically for the rifle.  Plus I added a thin double sided tape between the mount and rails contacts.  I also added a pen mark al lock position, so when I unbag the rifle and that mark is off I know it is coming loose.  And for an overkill I added a lock washer at the screw & nut. 

I try to minimize the chance of equipment failure.    

[troupe]

If adjusted properly , it won't just fall off. As Shaun said also, a QD mount also has to be adjusted properly to work the way it was intended.Take some of the finest QD mounts made, Larue, that is why Larue sends a wrench with the mounts. Nuts come loose and a PCC 9mm produces a lot of recoil impulse on a mount.  You asked for advise and you received some very good advise, but Vortex has great customer service as well.  Good luck and keep shooting.

[WarrenZ]

One of the PCC shooters I shoot with had to safety wire his qd closed because he kept having it open unexpectedly not sure what mount it was didn't seem important at the time.

[BartCarter]

11 hours ago, WarrenZ said:

One of the PCC shooters I shoot with had to safety wire his qd closed because he kept having it open unexpectedly not sure what mount it was didn't seem important at the time.

 

The Vortex AR riser MT-5108 has a "lock" that prevents this from happening. 

[Pewpewlife]

Anybody with a razor red dot looking for another alternative, Master of Arms makes a mount specifically for it, so no ugly riser anymore! Made of titanium and only weighs 0.6oz! 

[Silverscooby27]

Just for follow up on this issue...the locking button must have been broken on my riser, Vortex took it back and replaced it very quickly with a new one. I did have to pay shipping of the mount back to them. Great customer service for warranty issue. No problems with the new one... yet

[Silverscooby27]

Had same thing happen with the new one today. Optic didn’t fall off but lever opened. It made it probably 2 months without an issue. Now for the search for a new riser...Vortex had intermittent on off problems today as well. Maybe it’s just all the vibration. Maybe time to just bag Vortex and get an Aimpoint.

[SJMPCC022]

I would guess improper adjustment on the tension of the QD lever.

 

If the Vortex QD mounts were failing on a daily basis, you would hear about it, not to mention they have a bad ass lifetime warranty policy !

 

Things such as this have a "feel" to them.

 

If you aren't sure what it should "feel" like when you lock the QD lever, find someone who does.

 

These guns are used HARD and they get dirty!!!!  It takes a certain amount of mechanical aptitude to put one together and successfully implement it in a match. If you bought an off the shelf gun, you still need to know how to tear it down, clean it and put it back together, not to mention having an understanding how it really works. 

 

As far as the riser, that depends on the vertical distance between your wife's shoulder and the center line of her eyeballs. Only you( and her I would imagine) can answer that question.

 

IMO..................... I prefer my cheek to be hard down on the stock, but an " eyes up" position.( I use a .500" riser and a dot with no elevation at all) I see a lot of guys running and gunning with a dot that is 2 to 3.0 inches above the CL of the bore and shooting in a total " heads up" position. To each his own but that is not my preferred method.   

[jaques]

Look up Bobro QD mounts. They are not cheap,  but they account for minor pictanny differences.  Bobro is what I use, I prefer them over the Larue QD mounts which are also very good.  Good luck. 

[Silverscooby27]

Yes, I already sent the riser back to Vortex once, they were great and replaced it with a brand new one, but this brand new one has started doing the same after about 2 months. (6-7 matches). On a side note, the Vortex Razor cut out in the middle of a stage too. I figured it was the battery, changed it, but it cut out again and seems to have an intermittent contact problem, so that’s going back to Vortex again soon too. While I shot, one of the other people on our squad helped her out and said he had one of those too. She asked if he liked his, and his response was, he has one of those too, haha. Turns out his is going back to Vortex too. Then another person on our squad told me he had 2 lasers go out on his PCC this year.

 

I get it, everything breaks and I think these PCCs are really tough on optics and gear, tougher than I would expect. I just think it would be disappointing if someone had these problems at a major match where they paid a lot of money for travel, etc. Maybe the tougher stuff like the Aimpoint for example is the way to go for increased reliability.

 

thanks for the Bobro suggestion. I checked out their website but can’t find anything that would work for this of from Larue. I bought the Master of Arms one, we’ll see how it works out. It’s kinda ugly, and my wife wasn’t thrilled with the looks. I also bought a Yankee Hill Machine 0.5 riser and some TruGlo 0.75 and 1.0 risers for her to try to get dialed in. They are not QD, and look more traditional. Undoubtedly one of these 4 things will work, lol. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[Silverscooby27]

In fairness to Vortex too, one of the other shooters on our squad had her Burris FF3 go out in the middle of a stage too. PCC.............

[SJMPCC022]

One observation from the above posts..............................

 

The Vortex and the Burriss FF3 are reflex sights and not traditional micro dot size tube sights.

 

I started my journey in PCC with a Primary Arms micro dot that I had on another gun and liked it for a few reasons. When I bought a dedicated dot for the PCC I went with a Bushnell TR-25, almost a clone of the Primary Arms dot. They were both at a height that worked for me and are a tube style as opposed to a reflex style.

 

The tube dot has more mass and material around the electronics compared to a reflex style sight. Maybe that is the ticket for something that will last on a PCC gun?

 

If I were to buy a reflex style sight I would probably go with a C More railway sight, even over the C More smaller reflex sight. ( I don't remember right now what that one is called)

 

The reason I prefer the tube style dot is basic physics. If your dot goes away, you can still center your eye( round thing) in the tube ( round thing) and limp your way through one stage.

 

True story.............................. spring of this year, maybe second PCC match ever. Up to starting position, make ready, dot is barely visible. After stage changed battery and all was good in the world again. It was raining so targets were bagged, and the buzzer went off and I started shooting. With the weak dot and the rain, you couldn't see s**t ! So........................ I centered up on the tube and watched the bags shake when I squeezed the trigger ! Luckily the targets were relatively close and that tap dance was actually possible. If they would have been 40yds away, probably not the same result, I think I escaped with one M.

 

Conclusion.........................  your eye can center up on another round object. You really don't have to think about it, it just happens.

 

The really good news is I have a Vortex Venom all ready to go on an M&P for carry optics next year. I'm SURE that a reflex sight slamming back and forth mounted to the slide of an auto loading hand gun will last MUCH longer than said reflex sight would mounted to the rail on top of an AR chambered in 9mm !

 

Hang on !

[Old3GNR]

Ran a C-More for 68,000 rounds on an Open gun, Added a new one to my PCC, 6000 rounds No Issue.  I don't use a riser on the PCC.

[Chillywig]

10 minutes ago, Old3GNR said:

Ran a C-More for 68,000 rounds on an Open gun

Holy Moly! That's a lot of lead!

 

[Darqusoull13]

I'm happy with my MRO's on factory mounts on a pair of PCC's. My first has been mounted for 2 years, second is just about a year into pretty rigorous use. Between what I put them through in multigun, practice, USPSA and loaning them out (serious abuse) I haven't had a single issue. I did bang the mounted optic on a safe table at A4 last year before I shot a stage to prove a point. They stay on 24/7 and just plain work, every time. I guess I mounted them properly at this point