Dillon 650 Trimmer Options?

[Tokarev]

I'm thinking about converting my 650 into pretty much a dedicated brass processing machine. I'll add a primer swage punch and a trimmer and use it for working 223 brass.

 

What trimmer options are out there and what should I look at? Dillon 1500 or something else? And who all is making a Bosch router adapter?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

 

[stick]

RT1500 and swage it on a dedicated  tool head is what I use to process 223 brass.

[Tokarev]

RT1500 and swage it on a dedicated  tool head is what I use to process 223 brass.

Have you been using this set-up for awhile? Any issues with broken parts, etc? As I understand it, D will void the warranty if they find you've been using the press to swage.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[stick]

1 hour ago, Tokarev said:

Have you been using this set-up for awhile? Any issues with broken parts, etc? As I understand it, D will void the warranty if they find you've been using the press to swage.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

I haven't had any issues with it.  I remove the Swage it from station 2 when I'm done processing brass  The only issue with the swage it is the screws holding it come loose.  you need to check it every 100 rounds or so.  The RT1500 is awesome.  I've not had an issue with it at all.

Edited May 18, 2018 by stick

[Tokarev]

Are you running the brass through any sizing die before/after trimming or just using the Dillon trim die? 

[stick]

Universal decapping die in station 1

Station 2 is swage it

station 3 is empty

station 4 is RT1500

station 5 is empty

[Tokarev]

Universal decapping die in station 1
Station 2 is swage it
station 3 is empty
station 4 is RT1500
station 5 is empty

That's interesting. The Dillon sales rep told me I'd need to run the brass through a sizing die with expander ball afterwards.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[camaross400]

I have a 1050 and I use an MDie after trimming. However, others say they don’t need to.https://youtu.be/ibLFHRNRMbc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rjacobs]

Dillon trim dies have tight necks..

 

Get a 21st century shooting expander mandrel.  It will fit in station 5 of a 650 with a trimmer sitting in station 4...  A normal size die WILL NOT(at least not that I have found) fit in station 5 with the trimmer in station 4.

[cvincent]

That's interesting. The Dillon sales rep told me I'd need to run the brass through a sizing die with expander ball afterwards.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

The expander ball is not the best option. It may work for 55gr Bullets. But heavier Bullets will topple during indexing. Get an M die. It’s 25$ and well worth it.
I run Dillon decap/ size with expander ball removed in station 1.
Trimmer in 4. Using the Titian trimmer adapter and Bosch motor.

Loading toolhead has the M die in station 1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

How's the Titan compare to the Honey Badger?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Titan ordered. It seemed to be the most complete kit short of buying the Brass Muncher from eBay. The BM looks like a good deal although I'm leery of the quality of the "unbranded" router.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[cvincent]

That does seem to be a good deal if it works and lasts. If only trimming 223 I’m sure it’s fine. When converting to 300blk brass is where all the issues surface. The huge amounts of brass shavings are a pain to deal with.
Never seen a honey badger adapter. Only difference I see is the jack nut for concentricity.
I Don’t have a fancy concentricity gauge, but rigged up a dial indicator to a machinists V block and getting .003” Bullet runout. Seems pretty legit..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

That does seem to be a good deal if it works and lasts. If only trimming 223 I’m sure it’s fine. When converting to 300blk brass is where all the issues surface. The huge amounts of brass shavings are a pain to deal with.
Never seen a honey badger adapter. Only difference I see is the jack nut for concentricity.
I Don’t have a fancy concentricity gauge, but rigged up a dial indicator to a machinists V block and getting .003” Bullet runout. Seems pretty legit..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Bosch is 2HP and is supposed to have plenty of power for chopping 223 into 300BLK. Still, I suppose the best way to go is with the GSI rough and finish trim die set. Turns the conversion into 2 separate cutting operations. Two trips through the press that way unless there's room to mount two motors on top. I don't think there is.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[cvincent]

The Bosch is 2HP and is supposed to have plenty of power for chopping 223 into 300BLK. Still, I suppose the best way to go is with the GSI rough and finish trim die set. Turns the conversion into 2 separate cutting operations. Two trips through the press that way unless there's room to mount two motors on top. I don't think there is.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

The motor is fine, works great. The large amount of brass shavings either get sucked into the bearings of the motor, get wrapped around the end mill, creating high amp draw and tripping electrical breakers, clogging up vacuum hoses. Those are the issues I’ve had. I’ve probably converted ~6K pieces. The GSI deal may be something to look at.
I think I’ve alleviated most of my problems but haven’t ran a batch since changing to a boring bar and PVC pipe for the vacuum hose. Hoping the boring bar with chip breaker insert breaks down the long stringy brass shavings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

6 hours ago, cvincent said:

The large amount of brass shavings either get sucked into the bearings of the motor, get wrapped around the end mill, creating high amp draw and tripping electrical breakers, clogging up vacuum hoses...Hoping the boring bar with chip breaker insert breaks down the long stringy brass shavings.

 

Aha!  That makes sense now.

 

Another option, then, might be a jig and chop saw.  Slower, no doubt.  However it would allow you to trim cases that have already been rough cut to the required length.  

[rjacobs]

why re-invent the wheel for 300blk conversion...

 

jam em into the die in a single pass... stop and clean out the cutter every once in a while.

 

I never had issues with that with the Dillon RT1200 or RT1500.  I did blow up a couple RT1200's, but the RT1500 was good to go, just a little slower RPM than the 1200 which required slowing down the feed rate.

 

Ive done single pass conversion on over 50k pieces of brass using Whidden dies and Dillon trimmers...

[Tokarev]

why re-invent the wheel for 300blk conversion...
 
jam em into the die in a single pass... stop and clean out the cutter every once in a while.
 
I never had issues with that with the Dillon RT1200 or RT1500.  I did blow up a couple RT1200's, but the RT1500 was good to go, just a little slower RPM than the 1200 which required slowing down the feed rate.
 
Ive done single pass conversion on over 50k pieces of brass using Whidden dies and Dillon trimmers...

How's the Whidden die? Must be good if you've used it that much.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[rjacobs]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:37 AM, Tokarev said:

How's the Whidden die? Must be good if you've used it that much.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

 

When i got into it in 2011, there was Whidden and CH4D.  The CH4D dies, at the time were supposedly being cut with Whisper reamers which aren't QUITE like 300blk reamers(supposedly CH4D is now cutting to 300blk spec, but I have heard of other issues with other trim dies they make, so I will continue to stay away from them).  Whidden was what everybody pretty much was using.  Then Dillon came out with the 2 step dies in order to try to save the RT1200 trimmers from blowing up in 22-25k rounds(I blew up 2).  Then Dillon came out with the RT1500 which solved the trimmer blowing up problem and negated the need to do a 2 step processing.  Now guys(like you) are running routers with end mills and other stuff which to me is a bit crazy, but to each his own.  I dont know how fast you can run that router setup, but an RT1500 maxes out at about 950-1000 rounds per hour.  Faster than that and the cut is not clean and a lot of swarf is left on the case mouth.  This was confirmed with Dillon engineers on inches per hour feed rate.

 

BUT as far as dies go, Whidden would still be my personal go to.  They will go 100k or so rounds before you wear the die out, thats presuming no spinning of the cases...  You can destroy any die quickly if the cases are spinning.    Ive yet to destroy a die except one where the head broke off.  Whidden said it look like bad heat treat(or something) when I sent it back for warranty(I cant honestly remember, it was in 2012 or so).  Ive got 1 die in my tool head now and 2 sitting in my spares box.

Edited May 23, 2018 by rjacobs

[Tokarev]

49 minutes ago, rjacobs said:

The CH4D dies...have...issues...so I will continue to stay away from them.

I'm interested in making 277 Wolverine brass.  This is a wildcat that's similar to the 300BLK or 7.62X40 WT.  Unfortunately it seems that CH4D is the only current source for a Dillon-style trim die.

[Brassaholic13]

9 hours ago, rjacobs said:

 

When i got into it in 2011, there was Whidden and CH4D.  The CH4D dies, at the time were supposedly being cut with Whisper reamers which aren't QUITE like 300blk reamers(supposedly CH4D is now cutting to 300blk spec, but I have heard of other issues with other trim dies they make, so I will continue to stay away from them).  Whidden was what everybody pretty much was using.  Then Dillon came out with the 2 step dies in order to try to save the RT1200 trimmers from blowing up in 22-25k rounds(I blew up 2).  Then Dillon came out with the RT1500 which solved the trimmer blowing up problem and negated the need to do a 2 step processing.  Now guys(like you) are running routers with end mills and other stuff which to me is a bit crazy, but to each his own.  I dont know how fast you can run that router setup, but an RT1500 maxes out at about 950-1000 rounds per hour.  Faster than that and the cut is not clean and a lot of swarf is left on the case mouth.  This was confirmed with Dillon engineers on inches per hour feed rate.

 

BUT as far as dies go, Whidden would still be my personal go to.  They will go 100k or so rounds before you wear the die out, thats presuming no spinning of the cases...  You can destroy any die quickly if the cases are spinning.    Ive yet to destroy a die except one where the head broke off.  Whidden said it look like bad heat treat(or something) when I sent it back for warranty(I cant honestly remember, it was in 2012 or so).  Ive got 1 die in my tool head now and 2 sitting in my spares box.

 

Dillon has engineers?  Since when?  They have yet to figure out what clearance to use on a bearing to bore on the 1050.  The slowest speed on the Bosch is 8k, and it leaves a perfect cut.

[Tokarev]

Alright. The Titan adapter has been received and installed.

The Bosch router makes crazy short work of converting 223 into 277 Wolverine. My only complaint is all the shavings. Some fall back into the cases while others get trapped in the adapter itself. After about 250 cases I had a big wad of brass strings and bits inside the adapter and around the end mill.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[cvincent]

Haha yup. The shavings are horrible to deal with. I’m going to be converting blackout within the next few weeks so I’ll get to see how the boring bar and pvc pipe work out.

Corrugated vacuum hose clogs way too fast.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Most of the "bird nests" inside my cases have fallen out on their own.  A couple required the use of the small dental pick to fish out. 

 

Please let me know how the boring bar works. 

[Brassaholic13]

On 5/30/2018 at 10:00 PM, Tokarev said:

Alright. The Titan adapter has been received and installed.

The Bosch router makes crazy short work of converting 223 into 277 Wolverine. My only complaint is all the shavings. Some fall back into the cases while others get trapped in the adapter itself. After about 250 cases I had a big wad of brass strings and bits inside the adapter and around the end mill.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

 

That's because Titan didn't do a good job at copying the Honey Badger.  There's a bit more to it than just the outer dimensions and putting a hole in the center.