Help starting load for 9 major using VV 3n38 and 124 CMJ

[Hi-Power Jack]

16 hours ago, Gviz said:

 I’m beginning to think is this still worth it?  I can’t even feel 115 vs 124. Would I be able to feel the difference of WAC vs vv 3n38 In my hands?  

 

You should feel the difference, but the real question is:

 

Will it make you a better shooter ?    

 

Wasn't worth the effort for me - I'm sticking with WAC ….   NO POWDER SLINGING   

[Gviz]

18 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

You should feel the difference, but the real question is:

 

Will it make you a better shooter ?    

 

Wasn't worth the effort for me - I'm sticking with WAC ….   NO POWDER SLINGING   

Im beginning to think likewise. I’m going to put this quest for the best ammo in the back burner and marinate a bit. I’m beginning to feel I’m way over my head with this. I’ll just enjoy shooting open and get familiar with its ins and outs. Thanks for all the info and comments. It sure saved me time and money happy shooting guys!

 

And  yes, you are right jack it won’t make me a better shooter hahahaha  

Edited July 4, 2018 by Gviz

[Gviz]

On 7/3/2018 at 5:27 PM, Hi-Power Jack said:

You should feel the difference, but the real question is:

 

Will it make you a better shooter ?    

 

Wasn't worth the effort for me - I'm sticking with WAC ….   NO POWDER SLINGING   

Hey jack, I read in another thread that you got info from atlas on how to load 3n38 with 125gr. Or how to make it work and that is it about  wac that is  overloaded? Pls share thanks .

 

I ordered some blue bullets 125gr in hopes of loading with less possibilities of spilling powder. Would you happen to know what starting load I should do? Thanks in advance 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Gviz

[Hi-Power Jack]

9 hours ago, Gviz said:

Hey jack, I read in another thread that you got info from atlas on how to load 3n38 with 125gr.  

 

Just as soon as I get rid of my cache of 16 lbs of WAC, I'm going to try it - sorry, no experience here.

 

BUT, Atlas makes a lot of sense in terms of pressure - sounds like very few, if any other, powders

 will make Major  within industry standards.   So, it will be worth a try.

 

But, that's not going to be this year - got to use up my WAC first     

[kneelingatlas]

11 hours ago, Gviz said:

Hey jack, I read in another thread that you got info from atlas on how to load 3n38 with 125gr. Or how to make it work and that is it about  wac that is  overloaded? Pls share thanks .

 

I ordered some blue bullets 125gr in hopes of loading with less possibilities of spilling powder. Would you happen to know what starting load I should do? Thanks in advance 

 

I suggest starting with 8gr and work your way up, coated bullets tend to yeild higher velocity than jacketed over the same charge.

[racer-x]

AA7 is even slower burn rate than 3N38 (safer, more gas for comp & holes), MUCH easier to load (dense powder does not fill case) and less expensive.

Only down side in this comparison is AA7 is a little dirtier burn than 3N38. I've used 3N38 for many years and this hasn't been an issue for me at all.

 

I recently shot 800 rounds in my new Chaos without cleaning using my 10.8 grain charge of AA7 loads and zero malfunctions. Gun was not that dirty.

 

 

[racer-x]

Sorry for going off the topic of a starting  load for 3n38. I agree with kneelingatlas, 8 grains under a 125 is a good starting point.

 

I've been all over this road trying & wanting to make 3N38 work for me with 9 major... even though I really like 3N38, its just not worth it to me in 9 with AA7 as an option..

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, racer-x said:

 

I want to make 3N38 work for me with 9 major... its not worth it with AA7 as an option..

 

Have you tried this new Lovex powder ?

[racer-x]

33 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Have you tried this new Lovex powder ?

No, I have not.

 

From what I've read here, it sounds very similar to AA7 though.

I'm really happy with the performance of AA7. It's readily available local or online and checks all of these boxes for me:

• gun performance - lots of gas
• accurate
• low pressures (slowest burn rate compatible with 9major)
• low cost
• easy to load (its a fine grain powder - you may need my tape trick on Dillon powder bar)
• NOT temp sensitive (no significant changes measured between 25-110F)

 

 

 

[TANFARM]

This is a very informative and relative thread...thanks and let it continue.

I'm kinda in Jack's boat....alot of WAC to use up..but am going to do some winter experiments with HS-6 this winter...My Atlas Open seems to be adequate with my current load of 7.2 WAC, 124 RMR to 1.165"...but always chasing a flatter load.....

[Gviz]

11 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

I suggest starting with 8gr and work your way up, coated bullets tend to yeild higher velocity than jacketed over the same charge.

Thanks I’ll start at 8grs and work up

[Gviz]

7 hours ago, TANFARM said:

This is a very informative and relative thread...thanks and let it continue.

I'm kinda in Jack's boat....alot of WAC to use up..but am going to do some winter experiments with HS-6 this winter...My Atlas Open seems to be adequate with my current load of 7.2 WAC, 124 RMR to 1.165"...but always chasing a flatter load.....

I keep on reading HS6 and CFE many say it’s dirty but most open shooters I know use HS6 and CFE I’m tempted again o test those out as well. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Gviz

[Gviz]

10 hours ago, racer-x said:

Sorry for going off the topic of a starting  load for 3n38. I agree with kneelingatlas, 8 grains under a 125 is a good starting point.

 

I've been all over this road trying & wanting to make 3N38 work for me with 9 major... even though I really like 3N38, its just not worth it to me in 9 with AA7 as an option..

 

No worries going off topic lol suggestions are always welcome I hope   

 

if you can see the title I started looking for help for 3n38 hoping I could switch out from WAC and the whole thing shifted to WAC and now it’s really going back to the original topic of 3n38 LoL 

[Gviz]

By the way I’m shooting it 9 major schuemann barrel no holes and a bedell max Ti comp 

[Gviz]

8 hours ago, racer-x said:

No, I have not.

 

From what I've read here, it sounds very similar to AA7 though.

I'm really happy with the performance of AA7. It's readily available local or online and checks all of these boxes for me:

• gun performance - lots of gas
• accurate
• low pressures (slowest burn rate compatible with 9major)
• low cost
• easy to load (its a fine grain powder - you may need my tape trick on Dillon powder bar)
• NOT temp sensitive (no significant changes measured between 25-110F)

 

 

 

Ok I’m sold on low cost, not temp sensitive. I live in Las Vegas and we have crazy weather form shooting 40deg to 115deg so building my selection of powders that are not temp sensitive is going to be at the top of my priorities. Thanks for the info

 

(i see some post that Las Vegas temp ranging at 20-120 but I don’t shoot with those extreme conditions lol so 40-115 it is for me. )

Edited November 17, 2018 by Gviz

[Gviz]

Worked up a batch of blue bullets

 

125 RN with 3n38, mixed brass, win spp, 8.0, 8.2, 8.4 with OAL 1.170

 

147 RN with 3n38, mixed brass, win spp, 7.6, 7.8, 8.0 with OAL 1.220

 

both fail the barrel test They stick in there and don’t come out for the 125gr and for the 147gr it’s too long and it won’t go fully inside the chamber...

 

on the 125gr I went as low as OAL 1.150 and still it gets stuck in there and won’t spin and fall out I had to pull it out.

 

Now, what to do??

 

i can load

 

PD 124gr hp at OAL 1.165 & 1.175 using wac 

 

MG 124gr RN cmj OAL 1.165 & 1.175 using wac

 

Should I just stick with MG 124gr RN CMJs???

Edited November 22, 2018 by Gviz

[Gviz]

On 11/16/2018 at 4:49 AM, kneelingatlas said:

 

I suggest starting with 8gr and work your way up, coated bullets tend to yeild higher velocity than jacketed over the same charge.

Hi atlas, 

 

would you know what starting load I can use for MG 124gr RN cmj, OAL 1.165 using vv 3n38? 

 

Thanks in advance 

[kneelingatlas]

1 hour ago, Gviz said:

Worked up a batch of blue bullets

 

125 RN with 3n38, mixed brass, win spp, 8.0, 8.2, 8.4 with OAL 1.170

 

147 RN with 3n38, mixed brass, win spp, 7.6, 7.8, 8.0 with OAL 1.220

 

both fail the barrel test They stick in there and don’t come out for the 125gr and for the 147gr it’s too long and it won’t go fully inside the chamber...

 

on the 125gr I went as low as OAL 1.150 and still it gets stuck in there and won’t spin and fall out I had to pull it out.

 

Now, what to do??

 

i can load

 

PD 124gr hp at OAL 1.165 & 1.175 using wac 

 

MG 124gr RN cmj OAL 1.165 & 1.175 using wac

 

Should I just stick with MG 124gr RN CMJs???

 

Did you mean 1.12" for the 147s?

 

It sounds like you're developing loads backwards, find the max OAL in your barrel, then load some test loads.

 

BTW, your charge weights are way high for 147s, they should make major under seven grains.

 

Why are you changing bullets, powder and OAL at the same time anyway?

 

If you want to compare 3N38 to WAC, just use your PDs or MGs loaded to proven OAL, with 8ish grains and work up to major.

[kneelingatlas]

5 minutes ago, Gviz said:

Hi atlas, 

 

would you know what starting load I can use for MG 124gr RN cmj, OAL 1.165 using vv 3n38? 

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

Replyies crossed in cyberspace!

 

You're really not going to hurt anything with 3N38 in 9mm, you could start whenever you want in the 8-8.8gr range.  You'll probably make major around 8.5.

Edited November 22, 2018 by kneelingatlas

[Gviz]

My original plan was to use MG 124gr with 3n38 vs wac

 

then I saw a fellow open shooter and he showed me he was using blue bullets 147 RN 3n38 7.9gr oal 1.220 

 

i had some 147 and 124 and figured I’d load them up and test them out as well lol 

 

thinking also about a case of blue bullets and mg with a price difference of $120ish sounds tempting too if it works... 

 

and  its a plus too if I can make the blue bullets work in my open  since I use them for carry optics

 

thanks for warning me about the 147gr powder charge I’ll just pull them all off  

Edited November 22, 2018 by Gviz

[kneelingatlas]

8 minutes ago, Gviz said:

My original plan was to use MG 124gr with 3n38 vs wac

 

then I saw a fellow open shooter and he showed me he was using blue bullets 147 RN 3n38 7.9gr oal 1.220 

 

i had some 147 and 124 and figured I’d load them up and test them out as well lol 

 

thinking also about a case of blue bullets and mg with a price difference of $120ish sounds tempting too if it works... 

 

and  its a plus too if I can make the blue bullets work in my open  since I use them for carry optics

 

1.22" is really long for 9X19, I'd be shocked if you didn't have to ream your throat to make that work.

 

If you want to use Blue Bullets, figure out how long you can load them, then work up your load, this is load development 101.

[Gviz]

Will do, thanks for the tips very much appreciated 

[Hi-Power Jack]

I would work up loads for one bullet at a time - less confusing.

 

Find your OAL FIRST - run The Plunk Test with that bullet and find out how long you can

load that one bullet in your gun without it touching the rifling.

 

Then, look for a load for that bullet at that length.

 

2.  I don't see any mention of you using a chrono to work up these loads ?   Have to have 

     a chrono to develop Major loads

 

3.  Using the same bullets for 9mm Major and Minor loads - nothing wrong with it, but

     I use different bullets so I can instantly tell them apart - don't want to accidentally

     slip a 9mm Major load into my Kel-Tec …..   

[Gviz]

18 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I would work up loads for one bullet at a time - less confusing.

 

Find your OAL FIRST - run The Plunk Test with that bullet and find out how long you can

load that one bullet in your gun without it touching the rifling.

 

Then, look for a load for that bullet at that length.

 

2.  I don't see any mention of you using a chrono to work up these loads ?   Have to have 

     a chrono to develop Major loads

 

3.  Using the same bullets for 9mm Major and Minor loads - nothing wrong with it, but

     I use different bullets so I can instantly tell them apart - don't want to accidentally

     slip a 9mm Major load into my Kel-Tec …..   

Hi jack, 

 

found out that I need to ream my barrel to accommodate the blue bullets and for now I’m not  eager to do that at the moment. With blue bullets 125 RN  I found that I need to be 1.145 oal to pass the plunk test on my full size bedell open. So I’m just going to order some more mg 124gr RN cmj to test wac vs 3n38 and see if it is worth the switch for me.

 

i can see the logic for having the coated for minor and jacketed for major makes sense to me too...

 

was hoping to make the coated bullets work just because of the price... well, at least this keeps me back in line and not straying away from my main objectives lol  

 

yes I do plan to chrono when I get a chance to shoot the reloads. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Gviz

[Gviz]

Finally had the time to load and chrono 124gr MG cmj with vv 3n38 got to PF with 8.8gr and it’s compressed. I would not even try to load using 115gr with this powder I’m not that brave. So this is as far as I will go with this powder.

 

Shot this along side with my current match load of 124gr MG cmj with WAC. To be honest I couldn’t tell the difference between the 2 ammos grrrr (am I the only one that cant feel any difference with powders? On an open gun?) but compared it with 115gr PD HP with WAC it shot better for me, what I meant to say was less recoil or impulse on my hand and the dot did not leave the window. What am I missing here? I’m really lost with this powder experiment. How much PF should I go up and when do I stop to get max gains for the comp?

Edited June 2, 2019 by Gviz