Interesting article in May/June Front Sight

[obsessiveshooter]

You have to kind of expect people to bristle at the idea of their most expensive equipment becoming obsolete, or the idea of the rewards for recoil management disappearing.  It's DVC, this change would make it DC.  But, in the end, this is a change that will never happen.  

[motosapiens]

53 minutes ago, Krag said:

Where did I say I wanted everyone to shoot Minor?

where did I say you said that?  

 

'if'

[Krag]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

If you want to shoot minor, i'm fine with that. If you want everyone else to shoot minor too so you can feel better, then expect to have people step over lines. 

 

Here.

 

 

[Krag]

I believe that, as in every other sport, change is inevitable. Whether will see the changes Hopkins suggested remains to be seen. If - and that's a bit "IF" - it ever happens the solution would be simple and inexpensive - .40 shooters can download their ammo to ".40 Lite." I loaded .40s with 155 gr. bullets at MPF velocities for my wife when she first started shooting and we both used it in Production Division with my Glock 35. It was a very pleasant shooting load.

 

Just my 2/100s of a $ worth.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Krag

[ATLDave]

Screwing with major PF scoring would do as much damage to LTD as adding 8-shot guns did to revolver.  The difference is that revo' was already a troubled/marginal division at the time of that change, while this nonsense would blow up one of the biggest (often THE biggest) division in the game.  It's beyond moronic.  

[EEH]

I think what we should do is everyone write our President tell him what you think. 

And your area Director ..

[rishii]

 

dropping the PF would basically make 99% of the open, limited and L10 obsolete and would drive a bunch of people away from USPSA

Think about it, shooters invest time and a ton of money in their equipment, now imagine your 6 thousand dollar open or limited gun that you waited a year or two to be built, is now obsolete how pissed off would you be

your comp set up that runs and shoots flat at 165 PF, may not run and won’t be ideal for the lower PF

your limited blaster that you bought all the latest greatest mags for to fit that one extra round is obsolete because the 9shoots softer and holds more ammo

leave the power factor alone, it’s worked since the beginning 

 

[Racinready300ex]

5 hours ago, Krag said:

I'm almost sorry I mentioned Hopkin's article. From the vitriolic response from some posters it apparently gores too many sacred cows? Like I said, after almost two decades of shooting USPSA I've decided to shoot Minor in Limited and L10 (as do a number of shooters in this area)  as I am no longer a very "competitive" person and only want to enjoy myself at matches. And the money I'll save on ammo is a bonus.

 

I am not a "sissie" and believe the person who posted that stepped over the line!

 

So you've decided to not be competitive but you want to force everyone into the same decision you made so you can be competitive again. That's how I read what  you've wrote, and why you probably got the responses you have.

 

I'd say if it comes to it, none of this drop major to 145 B.S. Just kill Major and score everything minor. To me 145 major sounds like someone wants to have their cake and eat it too. You want minor recoil but you want to keep the points bonus of major. If you're killing it, kill it don't beat around the bush and half ass it or the sport will suffer. Better yet, leave it alone. Want to drive people away, changing the equipment rules and costing everyone money is a good way to do it.

[Krag]

So admitting I now shoot for more fun rather than competition means I want force everyone else to shoot Minor also? Where did I say that? You guys are reading a lot of stuff into my posts that I never said.

 

If expressing an opinion and offering suggestions is "evil" on this forum I guess I'll bow out.

[Racinready300ex]

17 minutes ago, Krag said:

So admitting I now shoot for more fun rather than competition means I want force everyone else to shoot Minor also? Where did I say that? You guys are reading a lot of stuff into my posts that I never said.

 

If expressing an opinion and offering suggestions is "evil" on this forum I guess I'll bow out.

 

No admitting to shooting minor and not being competitive , while simultaneously saying it would make sense to change how our major/minor scoring works makes it seem like there could be ulterior motives. 

 

If you don't think changing major is a good idea, you should of worded the OP differently. It comes across like you support the idea.

[jhgtyre]

5 hours ago, Krag said:

I believe that, as in every other sport, change is inevitable. Whether will see the changes Hopkins suggested remains to be seen. If - and that's a bit "IF" - it ever happens the solution would be simple and inexpensive - .40 shooters can download their ammo to ".40 Lite." I loaded .40s with 155 gr. bullets at MPF velocities for my wife when she first started shooting and we both used it in Production Division with my Glock 35. It was a very pleasant shooting load.

 

Just my 2/100s of a $ worth.

Around here people dump large amounts of money into gear just to get one or two more bullets in the mag.  Screwing with the PF rules would obsolete those .40 caliber limited guns for a lot of people.  It isn't just a spring change and lighter loads; it's a whole new gun.

[motosapiens]

6 hours ago, Krag said:

 

Here.

 

 

right. that's what I said. Do you understand the difference between that and your misunderstood paraphrase?

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Krag said:

If expressing an opinion and offering suggestions is "evil" on this forum I guess I'll bow out.

 

who said expressing an opinion was evil? no one.

 

It was just rightly pointed out that the suggestion is a terrible one, and should be resisted, and anyone who espouses it should get zero votes for area director.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Want to drive people away, changing the equipment rules and costing everyone money is a good way to do it.

 

This is it, in a nutshell. We already have at least 3 divisions where minor is either required, or competitive. IMHO, that is plenty.

 

and 145 major is not really major. that's just minor with an anchor tattoo.

[L3324temp]

I guess I expect this to happen. USPSA seems to never leave things as they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[teros135]

21 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

This is it, in a nutshell. We already have at least 3 divisions where minor is either required, or competitive. IMHO, that is plenty.

 

and 145 major is not really major. that's just minor with an anchor tattoo.

 

More like minor with a stick-on anchor tattoo ... 

[EEH]

If this does happen I’ll continue to shoot my open gun ,but won’t be uspsa member .

[mwray]

Why not raise MPF ?

[HoMiE]

1 hour ago, mwray said:

Why not raise MPF ?

Cause it’s already been dropped from 170 to 165. 

[xtian999]

You are right, Krag: It is an interesting article.

Elsewhere in the article, Hopkins mentions the goal of reaching out to other shooting organizations and soliciting more participation from government and law enforcement shooters. Perhaps this is part of the reason to reconsider power factor, since the 9mm is what most defence arms use. The .40 guns are cool and all, but they are really about gaming the existing pf system for advantage, instead of safely practicing and competing with defence-type arms and scenarios. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by xtian999
Clarifiktn

[xtian999]

If the idea of power factor can be seen as a handicapping system to mitigate competitive advantage, which is an effort to level the field and promote fairness, then any modification to improve the system is a benefit to the promotion of fair play. Assuming that most current participants and any potential future participants would also desire the same fair chance, then adjusting the power factor to accomodate modern calibers and loads used in popular personal defence arms would be a benefit to the sport. Given the advances in technology, perhaps an overall look at each individual firearm’s total capacity, such as caliber, bullet weight, velocity, magazine capacity, and performance enhancements such as optics, porting, etc. could be summed up in an individual handicap number that is specific to that weapon and applied to the score of each round shot with it.  Much like the handicap of a golfer that is set for each player and follows him around. That way, all you .40 cal guys can shoot your prize ponys all you want and the duty gun guys can run what they brung and everyone feels like they are gettin a fair shake. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by xtian999
sphel9ng

[Steve RA]

I think the Major power factor should go back up to 175, especially now that most have learned how to load 9mms to Major.

[mwray]

I think the Major power factor should go back up to 175, especially now that most have learned how to load 9mms to Major.

I’m with this guy

[pskys2]

On 5/25/2018 at 4:40 PM, motosapiens said:

 

This is it, in a nutshell. We already have at least 3 divisions where minor is either required, or competitive. IMHO, that is plenty.

 

and 145 major is not really major. that's just minor with an anchor tattoo.

Don't know about driving people away, but I like the description of 145 major! 

[FJR05]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:56 AM, xtian999 said:

If the idea of power factor can be seen as a handicapping system to mitigate competitive advantage, which is an effort to level the field and promote fairness, then any modification to improve the system is a benefit to the promotion of fair play. Assuming that most current participants and any potential future participants would also desire the same fair chance, then adjusting the power factor to accomodate modern calibers and loads used in popular personal defence arms would be a benefit to the sport. Given the advances in technology, perhaps an overall look at each individual firearm’s total capacity, such as caliber, bullet weight, velocity, magazine capacity, and performance enhancements such as optics, porting, etc. could be summed up in an individual handicap number that is specific to that weapon and applied to the score of each round shot with it.  Much like the handicap of a golfer that is set for each player and follows him around. That way, all you .40 cal guys can shoot your prize ponys all you want and the duty gun guys can run what they brung and everyone feels like they are gettin a fair shake. 

We don't need to be like NASCAR! Changing rules every year, even during the year, to keep "EVERYONE" on a level playing field.   The LEO's that shoot with us, shoot their duty  guns. They make the choice to keep doing that or decide to go to another division and equipment because its fun and improves their gun handling skills immensely...