92 FS Barrel slugged

[Bench]

I melted lead fishing weights in a 9mm case and used my bullet puller to get the lead slug out. I ran it through the barrel and it measured .357 for the grooves. Can it be said that I'll ( or more to the point 'the gun') achieve greater accuracy with a .358 diameter bullet or is it best to stick with the measured size?

 

Thanks!

[Steve RA]

Precision has a nice .358 coated that works well for me.

 

https://precisionbullets.com/product/38-125-fp/

[ddc]

15 minutes ago, Bench said:

I melted lead fishing weights in a 9mm case and used my bullet puller to get the lead slug out. I ran it through the barrel and it measured .357 for the grooves. Can it be said that I'll ( or more to the point 'the gun') achieve greater accuracy with a .358 diameter bullet or is it best to stick with the measured size?

 

Thanks!

I'm going to guess that is a least partly to blame for the keyholing problem you described in your other thread.

[Bench]

37 minutes ago, ddc said:

I'm going to guess that is a least partly to blame for the keyholing problem you described in your other thread.

LOL...yes, I've moved on from key-holing to accuracy now...nice to finally get going down the right path.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bench
??

[Bench]

 

54 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Precision has a nice .358 coated that works well for me.

 

https://precisionbullets.com/product/38-125-fp/

It looks like there's a ton of .358's out there that I'm going to get to try out. Thanks for the URL but as it stands now I'm a bit off the mark with Precision. Are you shooting a 92?

[Steve RA]

No, 1911 with a Kart barrel.

[IDescribe]

18 hours ago, Bench said:

... it measured .357 for the grooves.

 

Who could have guessed? 

 

 

[IDescribe]

19 hours ago, Bench said:

 Can it be said that I'll achieve greater accuracy with a .358 diameter bullet or is it best to stick with the measured size?

 

 

In your shoes. I'd buy a couple of hundred Gallant 125gr bullets at .357 and a couple hundred Blue Bullets 125gr at .358 and test them for precision and leading.  If the. 358 had no advantages, I'd go with .357.  If the .358 had any advantages, I'd go .358.  

 

In your case. With Eggleston local, I might get both my .357 and .358 there. 

 

However, while we can tell you that you should go to at leadt .357, only your gun can tell you if there's a  benefit to .358.  

 

Let us know. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by IDescribe

[zzt]

Matt Dardas of Dardas Bullets is an accuracy fanatic.  He also makes fantastic lead bullets.  Normally, he will insist on going .001" over groove diameter for the best accuracy.  However, in conversations with him, he does say that sometimes, inexplicably, a groove diameter lead bullet is more accurate. So I'd do as ID suggests.

[IDescribe]

24 minutes ago, zzt said:

Matt Dardas of Dardas Bullets is an accuracy fanatic.  He also makes fantastic lead bullets.  Normally, he will insist on going .001" over groove diameter for the best accuracy.  However, in conversations with him, he does say that sometimes, inexplicably, a groove diameter lead bullet is more accurate. So I'd do as ID suggests.

 

Another issue is quite simply that we don't know how accurate your measurement is.   You may be using less than precise calipers and be off by a thousandth.  Or you may have a top notch micrometer and be right on it.  Your .357 might be  .3565 or .3575.  Because you used fishing weights that are probably alloyed, there may be a little springback in the alloy and your. 357 accurately measured may reflect a. 3565 groove diameter because of spring back. 

 

Basically, you should try both sizes.

[Steve RA]

Yes, the best way is to try them.  At some point you just have to go shoot and quantify the results.  Use the best rest method you have and post your results.

[Bench]

2 hours ago, IDescribe said:

 

Who could have guessed? 

 

 

LOL!!! and I reread some of your posts from the keyhole thread and I got my answer to this thread. .358 is it so targets watch out 'cause Bench is after ya!!!

[Bench]

4 hours ago, Steve RA said:

No, 1911 with a Kart barrel.

Thanks, sounds like your barrel might be a bit bigger like mine.

[Bench]

1 hour ago, IDescribe said:

 

 

In your shoes. I'd buy a couple of hundred Gallant 125gr bullets at .357 and a couple hundred Blue Bullets 125gr at .358 and test them for precision and leading.  If the. 358 had no advantages, I'd go with .357.  If the .358 had any advantages, I'd go .358.  

 

In your case. With Eggleston local, I might get both my .357 and .358 there. 

 

However, while we can tell you that you should go to at leadt .357, only your gun can tell you if there's a  benefit to .358.  

 

Let us know. 

For sure, I'll be at their door first thing on Monday...then have to take the truck in...something always gets in the way of progress...

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bench

[Bench]

42 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Yes, the best way is to try them.  At some point you just have to go shoot and quantify the results.  Use the best rest method you have and post your results.

You know for sure I'll be posting results. I had a match canceled this weekend so plenty of time to reload and have range time coming up.

[IDescribe]

Remember not to go heavy with the fat bullets right off the bat unless you want to run the risk of more OAL issues. 

[Bench]

1 hour ago, IDescribe said:

Remember not to go heavy with the fat bullets right off the bat unless you want to run the risk of more OAL issues. 

I'm guessing that you are referring to heavy as in 147's vs. powder load. I'm sticking with 124's until I get in touch with my gunsmith who might have an idea with regard to what's going on with my barrel. And further if I can make PF with 124's which I have, I'm happy. I had to laugh at one of your earlier posts about lighter bullets may make one feel lighter and therefore faster...hey, that works for me! LOL.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bench

[zzt]

If you are unsure about the material you used to slug your bore, order a set of slugs from Dardas.  http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=dardas&Category_Code=SLUGS 

 

You get a package of three round slugs composed of 92-2-6 alloy.  Drop one in the chamber a drive it through the barrel with a dowel than is very close to bore size.  Repeat with the other two.  Matt offers a free measuring service.  You only have to send the slugs back to him in a padded protected package.  He will not measure any slugs that have been deformed because of insufficient packaging.  I do the same with all my barrels, except I measure them myself with a good Starrett mic know to be accurate to .0001".

[Bench]

Just now, zzt said:

If you are unsure about the material you used to slug your bore, order a set of slugs from Dardas.  http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=dardas&Category_Code=SLUGS 

 

You get a package of three round slugs composed of 92-2-6 alloy.  Drop one in the chamber a drive it through the barrel with a dowel than is very close to bore size.  Repeat with the other two.  Matt offers a free measuring service.  You only have to send the slugs back to him in a padded protected package.  He will not measure any slugs that have been deformed because of insufficient packaging.  I do the same with all my barrels, except I measure them myself with a good Starrett mic know to be accurate to .0001".

There probably haven't been too many studies to determine the amount of spring back and at the level that I'm at (not GM for sure) I think that accuracy is going to be the best test. Thanks zzt!

[IDescribe]

That is correct.  I have never slugged a barrel myself.  No matter the result, I would still want to test different sizes and let the pistol tell me what size it likes best.  And since I have 9mm pistols with bores of different sizes, I always have bullets of different sizes on hand. 

 

The only way I would even consider it is if I had a problem I couldn't otherwise figure out. 

[IDescribe]

On 5/13/2018 at 5:51 PM, Bench said:

I'm guessing that you are referring to heavy as in 147's vs. powder load.

 

I was referring to 147 being necessarily longer bullets, automatically putting you closer to a problem because they are automatically seated deeper into the case at max OAL compared to a lighter bullet of the exact same nose profile. 

 

And I'm talking about that situation being magnified because one bullet will  have a shorter max OAL than the same bullet sized a thousandth smaller. 

 

So heavy bullets plus oversized typically equals shorter OAL and very deep seating. 

 

In other words, a 125gr RN sized .358 is likely to be fine, and a 147gr RN sized .356 is likely to be fine, but a 147gr RN sized .358 is more likely to leave you with the same problem you started with where you had to swat a lead bullet super deep into the case. 

[IDescribe]

On 5/13/2018 at 5:51 PM, Bench said:

I had to laugh at one of your earlier posts about lighter bullets may make one feel lighter and therefore faster...hey, that works for me! LOL.

 

At the same PF, a pistol will cycle faster with a lighter bullet than a heavier bullet.  You can feel it. Many people find at minor PF that heavier bullets cycle the pistol in a fashion that seems downright sluggish. 

 

There are plenty of people who start off with 147gr for minor PF because that's the common internet wisdom, then move onto 124gr after trying some 124gr minor PF loads and discovering there just as fast or faster.  Basically, they figure out that softer "felt" recoil doesn't make their splits faster, and that a faster cycling pistol makes them feel faster, and in a game where fast fluid transitiins is the key to better scores, feeling faster with a faster gun often equals faster. 

 

Recoil control is about grip and stance and learning to drive the gun, not "felt" recoil. If heavier bullets at the same PF was the path to greatness, every pro would be shooting Production with 230gr .45ACP at 130 PF, and the number of pros doing that is... zero?  And for every guy loving his supersoft bunny fart loads, there's a guy shooting. 40 major at 173PF killing him on splits.

 

[Bench]

3 hours ago, IDescribe said:

Recoil control is about grip and stance and learning to drive the gun, not "felt" recoil. If heavier bullets at the same PF was the path to greatness, every pro would be shooting Production with 230gr .45ACP at 130 PF, and the number of pros doing that is... zero?  And for every guy loving his supersoft bunny fart loads, there's a guy shooting. 40 major at 173PF killing him on splits.

 

That last part put a smile on my face... I've been toying with the idea of moving on to 40 major but with the lessons here and in 9 production it's looking more enticing. With this new mind set that you've given me I'm also going to have to change part of my forum 'signature' with regard to "Heavier bullets...LOL. Thanks IDescribe!!!

[zzt]

3 hours ago, IDescribe said:

At the same PF, a pistol will cycle faster with a lighter bullet than a heavier bullet.  You can feel it. Many people find at minor PF that heavier bullets cycle the pistol in a fashion that seems downright sluggish. 

 

I shot 40 major in Limited.  I went with 180gr bullets, because that's what EVERYONE said was the best.  Then I read that recoil with a 200gr was softer.  So I tried some.  Well, slide action was so slow you could take a nap while waiting for lockup.  So I tried 165gr bullets.  Faster, snappier, quicker.  Plus my splits were better.  Same with the 155s I tried next.  My Limited gun did not care for 135s at major, so I shot up all the 165s and bought 4000 155s.   I then went even farther and lightened the slide to get a faster response.  I'll trade the harder hit to the hand for a lot less muzzle rise.  That translates to faster splits.

 

BTW, a friend shoots SS with 230gr bullets.  Why, because that is what he always used.  I suggested he try some 185s.  He did and was amazed.  My 9mm friends are doing the same.  Most stopped in the 124~135 range, but some went down to 115.  Why not?  You can hardly feel a 9mm's recoil anyway (except maybe in a plastic gun), so why not speed things up.  

[Bench]

44 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

I shot 40 major in Limited.  I went with 180gr bullets, because that's what EVERYONE said was the best.  Then I read that recoil with a 200gr was softer.  So I tried some.  Well, slide action was so slow you could take a nap while waiting for lockup.  So I tried 165gr bullets.  Faster, snappier, quicker.  Plus my splits were better.  Same with the 155s I tried next.  My Limited gun did not care for 135s at major, so I shot up all the 165s and bought 4000 155s.   I then went even farther and lightened the slide to get a faster response.  I'll trade the harder hit to the hand for a lot less muzzle rise.  That translates to faster splits.

 

BTW, a friend shoots SS with 230gr bullets.  Why, because that is what he always used.  I suggested he try some 185s.  He did and was amazed.  My 9mm friends are doing the same.  Most stopped in the 124~135 range, but some went down to 115.  Why not?  You can hardly feel a 9mm's recoil anyway (except maybe in a plastic gun), so why not speed things up.  

For 9mm the thought had crossed my mind about seeing what 115's would do in my metal frame...this is a whole new thought for me in contrast to conventional internet/shooting wisdom. I'll see what I get with the 124's/diameter choices and once that's nailed down I just may toy with some 115's. So much work left to do!! Thanks for your confirmations zzt.