Safe table

[DKorn]

8 hours ago, L3324temp said:

 

 

Agree but maybe 70-80% of people know this local matches?

 

 

 

I don’t care if they know the rules or not. They agreed to follow them when they registered as a USPSA club, and I have a copy of the rulebook in my bag and on my phone. I’m not going to “range lawyer” every little detail, but I’m also not going to let someone get away with unreasonably messing with my fellow competitors. 

[Nathanb]

11 hours ago, L3324temp said:

 

People who do not give the hits when hitting a no shoot even though the perf is broken and the A hit is earned. Or on procedural per shot when there is no significant advantage. This list goes on...

 

 

 

 

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So sign up and take the class and then you can be that guy. 

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

I don’t care if they know the rules or not. They agreed to follow them when they registered as a USPSA club, and I have a copy of the rulebook in my bag and on my phone. I’m not going to “range lawyer” every little detail, but I’m also not going to let someone get away with unreasonably messing with my fellow competitors. 

I think he meant that amount of shooters know the rules. Not the club?

[DKorn]

5 hours ago, Sarge said:

I think he meant that amount of shooters know the rules. Not the club?

 

Maybe he did, I might’ve misinterpreted it. In the case of a shooter who doesn’t know the rules (and I guess an RO who also doesn’t?) that has been DQ’d for something that isn’t a violation, I will advocate on their behalf for the correct call. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

Maybe he did, I might’ve misinterpreted it. In the case of a shooter who doesn’t know the rules (and I guess an RO who also doesn’t?) that has been DQ’d for something that isn’t a violation, I will advocate on their behalf for the correct call. 

Most people don’t give RO’s enough credit I think. I would also speak up for ANY shooter who is subject to a major screw up by an RO. But I am also the guy who keeps an eye on a safe table that is near my stage. If I’m just lounging around between stages and I see you handle a loaded mag you will be done.

  Also remember there is protocol involved. You don’t challenge an RO directly in most cases. At a local you need to have a discussion that includes the MD/RM. At a major you really need to be more discreet about it. Just put yourself in the RO’s shoes who THINKS he made the right call. It’s not cool for the peanut gallery to interject openly. Just talk to the shooter and let him know you will be there if he wants to arb it. Good RM’s only want to hear from the shooter and the RO. And they can usually sort it out if it’s blatantly a wrong call.

[Nathanb]

2 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

Maybe he did, I might’ve misinterpreted it. In the case of a shooter who doesn’t know the rules (and I guess an RO who also doesn’t?) that has been DQ’d for something that isn’t a violation, I will advocate on their behalf for the correct call. 

And there should be procedures in place for an appeal to the range master or match director 

[DKorn]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Most people don’t give RO’s enough credit I think. I would also speak up for ANY shooter who is subject to a major screw up by an RO. But I am also the guy who keeps an eye on a safe table that is near my stage. If I’m just lounging around between stages and I see you handle a loaded mag you will be done.

  Also remember there is protocol involved. You don’t challenge an RO directly in most cases. At a local you need to have a discussion that includes the MD/RM. At a major you really need to be more discreet about it. Just put yourself in the RO’s shoes who THINKS he made the right call. It’s not cool for the peanut gallery to interject openly. Just talk to the shooter and let him know you will be there if he wants to arb it. Good RM’s only want to hear from the shooter and the RO. And they can usually sort it out if it’s blatantly a wrong call.

 

Agree 100%. And as far as being in the RO’s shoes goes, I’m one of your ROs this weekend, so hopefully I don’t make any bad calls. If I do, I’d want someone to politely point it out to me so that I can learn from it, and then follow the normal escalation process by talking to the CRO- who, if I’m very wrong, would hopefully be the one bringing it up in the first place. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

Agree 100%. And as far as being in the RO’s shoes goes, I’m one of your ROs this weekend, so hopefully I don’t make any bad calls. If I do, I’d want someone to politely point it out to me so that I can learn from it, and then follow the normal escalation process by talking to the CRO- who, if I’m very wrong, would hopefully be the one bringing it up in the first place. 

You won't make any bad calls. I have faith in you and all the staff!

[Nathanb]

Mistakes happen. That’s part of learning. Even the crm instructors make mistakes. What makes a good ro is being able to accept you might be wrong, verifying it, and learning from it. 

[Dpolk]

As long as there is no ammunition in the mag or being handled it should be fine. Some places say no mag in gun at all but that is the discretion of the club itself. One place I go to shoot steel has removed people for having an empty mag in a breakdown 10/22 that was broken down in a cart. The guy wasn’t even shooting that rifle he just brought it to show his friend the new suppressed barrel he got. 

[Hammer002]

4 hours ago, Dpolk said:

As long as there is no ammunition in the mag or being handled it should be fine. Some places say no mag in gun at all but that is the discretion of the club itself. One place I go to shoot steel has removed people for having an empty mag in a breakdown 10/22 that was broken down in a cart. The guy wasn’t even shooting that rifle he just brought it to show his friend the new suppressed barrel he got. 

 

1.  If on belt, in pocket, etc, may have ammunition in magazine, just may not be handled.

2.  Empty magazine is absolutely fine.  Even dry practice reloads are fine within a safe area.

3.  If we are talking USPSA, the inability for “discretion of the club itself” has already been discussed in this thread.  Clubs are expected to follow USPSA rules and allow what USPSA allows.

4.  Again, if USPSA, if magazine observed in ANY gun, a RO escorts to safe area and asks competitor to remove magazine and show clear.  If empty mag and chamber, NOT a DQ.  If round in chamber or magazine, that’s a DQ.  

5.  In the given scenario, it’s possible for a DQ to have resulted for failure to flag if bolt not locked to the rear.

6.  If a uspsa match is in progress, it does not matter why the firearm is there nor it’s condition.  If it’s presence or condition is a violation of uspsa rules the person who put it there and/or another person handling it are subject to DQ if a DQ rule applies.

[Brooke]

On 5/20/2018 at 8:13 PM, L3324temp said:

With the limited knowledge of ROs and the mean Spirt of some of them I never bring loaded mags on my belt to the table. My Range bag with loaded mags does go, but it is not opened in a way that an RO would be able to observe. If they try to kick me out for doing so it will be difficult for them do so.


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Sounds like you’re the one with limited knowledge. You can have loaded mags in the safe area as long as you don’t handle them. So I guess the limited knowledge RO is less limited than you

[teros135]

30 minutes ago, Brooke said:

Sounds like you’re the one with limited knowledge. You can have loaded mags in the safe area as long as you don’t handle them. So I guess the limited knowledge RO is less limited than you

 

No, he was clearly stating his strategy for avoiding DQ by uninformed ROs, not saying you can't have loaded mags on your person in a Safety Area.  Many friends and I also take mags off before entering the safety area, in order to avoid fouling up by unthinkingly grabbing one, or catching the attention of an unknowing RO.  The attitude isn't necessary - we're all trying to do the right thing. 

[MemphisMechanic]

Not having mags or ammo on your person also makes the RO’s job easier. If you are at the safe area with empty mag carriers on your belt, then the RO can relax a little more.

 

 If you just showed clear to him then walked over to the safe area to look into a malfunctioning gun (with half-full mags on your hip) he has to pay a little more attention.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[L3324temp]

Sounds like you’re the one with limited knowledge. You can have loaded mags in the safe area as long as you don’t handle them. So I guess the limited knowledge RO is less limited than you

I am fully aware they are allowed.



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[Hammer002]

3 hours ago, L3324temp said:

 

I am fully aware they are allowed.



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4 hours ago, Brooke said:

Sounds like you’re the one with limited knowledge. You can have loaded mags in the safe area as long as you don’t handle them. So I guess the limited knowledge RO is less limited than you

 

Lmao.  Hey L3324, looks like u flushed one out.