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PCC and Pistol


WaJim

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Over the last year I've witnessed mediocre Pistol Competitors shoot PCC and become Masters in PCC.

 

If its true that classifying in PCC will bring up your pistol classification to one level below, the why would any Pistol shooter want to shoot PCC?

 

I compare my scores with others in my current classification after every match. Half the fun is competing with your Buddys bthat shoot at the same level for bragging rights.

 

Why is PCC tied with Pistol classes in USPSA?

 

I'd think the logical move for USPSA would be to divorce the two so the rifle doesn't drag the pistol upward and create Paper "A" Pistol shooters that normally shoot "C".

 

I for one won't be partaking in PCC. I work too hard to move up in Pistol.

 

 

 

 

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I primarily shoot PCC now.  PCC is fun to shoot and I;m not worried about classifications.  Yes I'm a better PCC Shooter than pistol, but it has really helped me since I'm cross eye dominant (Left handed and right eye dominant).  I do however shoot rifle right handed.  PCC has afforded me the luxury of not having to adjust anything to line up the sights.  I'm better at PCC, but I do practice more now than I ever did with pistol.

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Certain classifiers gives PCC advantages like no uprange starts or no hands above shoulder, so time wise it's always faster. Not to mention the Can you count classifier where the first target you don't have to aim, just point (better with laser) and shoot at the beep. So yeah, you see an M/GM on PCC but really just a B on pistol. 

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On 5/12/2018 at 7:16 AM, WaJim said:

I compare my scores with others in my current classification after every match. Half the fun is competing with your Buddys bthat shoot at the same level for bragging rights.

 

 

I compare my scores with everyone. Waste of time to compare myself to other people that are too lazy to put in the work to get better. I do notice people's class at major matches where I don't actually know the folks, but I don't stress too much about it.

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On 5/12/2018 at 9:16 AM, WaJim said:

 

 

If its true that classifying in PCC will bring up your pistol classification to one level below, the why would any Pistol shooter want to shoot PCC? 

 

 

 

 

For me, I shot pistols in USPSA for about 5-6 years, once PCC hit I went full in because I enjoy shooting rifles more than pistols and PCC is the only/best way in my area to shoot a rifle in an action style match. At first I was a bit worried about what it would do to my pistol classifications, but I decided to just let that go. 

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I have never shot in PCC. Would most of you prefer to shoot them in a standard USPSA match, or do you think it would be more fun and challenging if there were stand alone PCC matches with some longer and tighter shots mixed in or whatever else to challenge you? You might also get shooters that only want to shoot pistols in regular matches.

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15 minutes ago, MHicks said:

I have never shot in PCC. Would most of you prefer to shoot them in a standard USPSA match, or do you think it would be more fun and challenging if there were stand alone PCC matches with some longer and tighter shots mixed in or whatever else to challenge you? You might also get shooters that only want to shoot pistols in regular matches.

I would love to shoot stand alone PCC matches with some extra distance and/or tighter shots, but again, In my area, I think the division is a long way away from that happening. At least with USPSA PCC as it is now I am guaranteed one match a month all year long with my home club and during the summer months I have an option to hit a club in a neighboring state.   

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58 minutes ago, MHicks said:

I have never shot in PCC. Would most of you prefer to shoot them in a standard USPSA match, or do you think it would be more fun and challenging if there were stand alone PCC matches with some longer and tighter shots mixed in or whatever else to challenge you? You might also get shooters that only want to shoot pistols in regular matches.

I almost exclusively shoot PCC now except in 3-gun. Really enjoy it. I never shot classifiers well, but always finished up in the standings whether PCC or open pistol. So I don't really care where I am classified. I like to shoot against the best and use them to judge my performance. We have some really good pistol & PCC shooters here.

 

Here in the Houston area we have many USPSA matches to choose from and shoot PCC. All are well run and once they got over the PCC/rifle prejudices are great to shoot.

 

Luckily we have a USPSA & falling steel match not too far away that really caters to PCC shooters. You can shoot any gun you want at the match, but PCC is the way to go.. The MD is a PCC shooter and sets them up to be super challenging for all. I have shot PCC only matches and don't really see much of a difference between them and USPSA. We also have hoser type matches with up to 25 paper or combos of paper and steel that are put on several times a years. The big mags & no reloads make for a good time. 

 

Now in UML 3-gun PCC becomes much more of a challenge with shots out to 100 yards. Totally different ball game. 

 

gerritm

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Shoot the gun you want to shoot. We set up our matches so folks can have a fun, safe time regardless of the gun they bring out within the rule sets we use. In USPSA divisions are separate. That means Open doesn't compete with Limited 10 any more than they compete with PCC. Our token revolver shooter enjoys the long field courses as much as the PCC folks. We do our best to make sure he isn't forced to do a standing reload and that usually means the low capacity divisions end up with more options on stage plans just like the Open guys have more options to game the stage. 

 

11 minutes ago, gerritm said:

I almost exclusively shoot PCC now except in 3-gun. Really enjoy it. I never shot classifiers well, but always finished up in the standings whether PCC or open pistol. So I don't really care where I am classified. I like to shoot against the best and use them to judge my performance. We have some really good pistol & PCC shooters here.

 

Here in the Houston area we have many USPSA matches to choose from and shoot PCC. All are well run and once they got over the PCC/rifle prejudices are great to shoot.

 

Luckily we have a USPSA & falling steel match not too far away that really caters to PCC shooters. You can shoot any gun you want at the match, but PCC is the way to go.. The MD is a PCC shooter and sets them up to be super challenging for all. I have shot PCC only matches and don't really see much of a difference between them and USPSA. We also have hoser type matches with up to 25 paper or combos of paper and steel that are put on several times a years. The big mags & no reloads make for a good time. 

 

Now in UML 3-gun PCC becomes much more of a challenge with shots out to 100 yards. Totally different ball game. 

 

gerritm

Glad you enjoy the matches. Hopefully we keep improving! Every now and again I pick up a pistol. This Sunday it looks like I'm signed up for Open...and PCC :cheers:

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That potential bump in classification is why I sometimes see GM-level sandbagging when a PCC shooter gets to the classifier.  Someone who has been shooting at blazing fast speeds all day suddenly manages to hit all Deltas and take ~ 5 seconds for the reload.

 

I'm enjoying PCC because I don't shoot rifles very often and it's something new for me.  And since I'm on my way to an A or B classification, I'm not worried about my B pistol class being bumped.

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I prefer to shoot all pcc  matches. I shoot pcc when I don't feel like reloading ammo for the match and just want to shoot factory. My classification is about the same percentage wise. I do plan to shoot the Lucas PCC match again this year. 

 

I have seen quite a few shooters who heroed classifiers with pcc. 

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So do you have examples of these mediocre shooters with GM in PCC and a lot less in pistol?
If you have good examples I’d do the write up and take this to Foley...

But I’d need a number of examples...
Otherwise this will be laughed off the stage..

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11 hours ago, RadarTech said:

So do you have examples of these mediocre shooters with GM in PCC and a lot less in pistol?
If you have good examples I’d do the write up and take this to Foley...

But I’d need a number of examples...
Otherwise this will be laughed off the stage..
 

That would be hard to document as a GM in PCC is now M in everything else. However, USPSA already has the data to determine, for example, a B pistol shooter became an M just because of the rifle classification.

That is, USPSA can investigate if they wanted to. Betting they won't.

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That would be hard to document as a GM in PCC is now M in everything else. However, USPSA already has the data to determine, for example, a B pistol shooter became an M just because of the rifle classification.
That is, USPSA can investigate if they wanted to. Betting they won't.


I have an email chain going between a few BOD members. The gist of it is that every example presented to date is a GM PCC shooter that hasn’t shot a classifier in a pistol discipline in a significant period of time... meaning they likely don’t show skill improvement on pistol.

So there is the opinion this is not a real thing and when asked for examples to prove them wrong— I see this response.

I’m actively trying to help your cause. But if no one has examples, I’ll gladly drop it.

Point here is— in the grand scheme of things there are a number of other challenges being worked on at HQ. And while this bears merit, I don’t see them dropping other priorities when the complaint comes without any evidence. I’m on your side... show me something and I will present it.

If this is just a waste of time, I too could be doing other things..
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To be clear I wasn't complaining....

 

Other peoples classification don't matter to me. In My OP it says I'm not partaking for my own reasons. If I do (and I have a PCC) I'll be a PCC classifier sandbagger.

 

Just between some of my close friends we've had this conversation and thought it'd be a good BE discussion.

 

Everyone has been with that group of shooters having late lunch after a match when a PCC guy says Hey I got High Overall and the comments and ribbing start flying...all in jest.

 

The subject, I feel, has been avoided......unless with close groups.

 

Could I be wrong?....Possibly.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RadarTech said:

 


I have an email chain going between a few BOD members. The gist of it is that every example presented to date is a GM PCC shooter that hasn’t shot a classifier in a pistol discipline in a significant period of time... meaning they likely don’t show skill improvement on pistol.

So there is the opinion this is not a real thing and when asked for examples to prove them wrong— I see this response.

I’m actively trying to help your cause. But if no one has examples, I’ll gladly drop it.

Point here is— in the grand scheme of things there are a number of other challenges being worked on at HQ. And while this bears merit, I don’t see them dropping other priorities when the complaint comes without any evidence. I’m on your side... show me something and I will present it.

If this is just a waste of time, I too could be doing other things..

 

I've got a few examples.

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1 minute ago, WaJim said:

Everyone has been with that group of shooters having late lunch after a match when a PCC guy says Hey I got High Overall and the comments and ribbing start flying...all in jest.

 

 

i'm not sure i've ever been to a match where a pcc shooter got high overall, even if high overall were a thing outside of pistol divisions....

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32 minutes ago, WaJim said:

HOA doesnt matter at all to me either...I shoot Limited and SS.

 

But My Pistol Classification does matter.

 

I suggest practicing with your pistol. that's what I do.  It helps alot.  ;)

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