USPSA Course Designs

[IndianaJim]

Being a long time Life Member in USPSA I have had many years of shooting fun with this sport. The professional NROI organization is second to none. However, it is time with so many divisions, ( and maybe more on the way) to have Division Specific Matches. Yes I know we have held many in the last few years and they are getting more popular. However it is not too practical to use run and gun stages for all divisions. It seems silly to have one stage fits all. Shooting PCC at 3 yards may not be very Practical. Running a 1911 for 400+ rounds a day is certainly not practical. Yes they bring the number of entries as many competitors want to shoot a lot of rounds and I get that. However, let the MD hold optional side matches to grow round count. Also, split day squads can be better for us old farts. Just sayin.

[EEH]

Being one of the old farts,,We are out numbered about 3 to 1, By the younger farts.

 

and one range close to me has I think,monthly pcc matches 

[p7fl]

Another older fart, 69 next week and CRO for almost 20 years.

I still like to work on stage designs and don't really see a  problem working PCC into a match.

It still is the shooter "solving the problem" .

 

[zzt]

The only problem I see with stage design and PCC is at those clubs who do not permit the muzzle to rise above the berm.  If you don't leave enough room going around corners with a level PCC, you are essentially designing a PCC DQ trap.  Yes, they will have some trouble with close head only shots, but so do Open shooters with an upright Slideride.

 

BTW, I see no problem running 400+ 45 ACP rounds through a 1911.  Both of mine will do that all day, every day.  After 40,000 rounds I had to recut the hammer hooks on the oldest.  That's it.  It still wears all the original parts (except for recoil springs).

[DKorn]

5 hours ago, zzt said:

The only problem I see with stage design and PCC is at those clubs who do not permit the muzzle to rise above the berm.  If you don't leave enough room going around corners with a level PCC, you are essentially designing a PCC DQ trap.  Yes, they will have some trouble with close head only shots, but so do Open shooters with an upright Slideride.

 

Per rule 3.3, unless the clubs that are not allowing the muzzle over the berm have specific permission to do so, they may not enforce rules that aren’t in the rulebook. If they were to DQ a shooter for having the muzzle over the berm, what rule would be cited?

[zzt]

D, even with permission and a clear warning during the match briefing, there is still a DQ danger of breaking 180 or sweeping while trying to avoid raising the muzzle.  My point was simply this:  if you allow PCC you should design the course to accommodate a shooter running with a 30" carbine instead of a 10" handgun.

[gerritm]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

D, even with permission and a clear warning during the match briefing, there is still a DQ danger of breaking 180 or sweeping while trying to avoid raising the muzzle.  My point was simply this:  if you allow PCC you should design the course to accommodate a shooter running with a 30" carbine instead of a 10" handgun.

I have pretty much shot PCC since day 1 it was approved. As far as our USPSA matches around Houston, there is no need to redesign any course of fire. There are techniques to move the PCC that do not involve sweeping or breaking the 180 up or down and to shoot it on any angle. As a 3-gun shooter I am used to running and gunning with a rifle. Problem is like anything you have to learn them and practice. 

 

My only issue has been when a MD designs the stage to mess with the PCC shooters, which has happened. Unsafe leans, one handed shots, etc.

 

gerritm

[rowdyb]

Everyone wants stages designed to their own interests and strengths as a shooter. A great stage designer for your local club absolutely can not be over valued.

[EEH]

Yea at my age I’d like to take two steps left and two steps right all at eye level ..

[Nathanb]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Everyone wants stages designed to their own interests and strengths as a shooter. A great stage designer for your local club absolutely can not be over valued.

Agreed. And well said 

[zzt]

20 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Everyone wants stages designed to their own interests and strengths as a shooter. A great stage designer for your local club absolutely can not be over valued.

 

Not everyone.  I prefer the challenge, and that's exactly what I get at my favorite club.  They are imaginative devils.   BTW, I don't shoot PCC.

[rowdyb]

2 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Not everyone.  I prefer the challenge, and that's exactly what I get at my favorite club.  They are imaginative devils.   BTW, I don't shoot PCC.

True, I guess what I meant is that a lot of the time people or whatever act in their own self interest above all else. Sometimes to their detriment. Like you, I prefer to be challenged. And that's why the stage designer is worth so much. They really set the tone for the 30 to 130 people that go to your local.

Edited May 19, 2018 by rowdyb

[CaptD]

We kinda have the opposite going on.  The PCC guys setting up stages that really favor them.  Like 20yd upper A zone only shots.  That's OK.  I've seen it both ways.  Same thing happen years ago when Open went to red dot's.  We'll all get over it.

[Nathanb]

Ive done that. I wasn’t shooting PCC at the time either. The amount of help I get during set up is usually directly related to how hard the match is

[waktasz]

On 5/12/2018 at 9:01 AM, IndianaJim said:

Being a long time Life Member in USPSA I have had many years of shooting fun with this sport. The professional NROI organization is second to none. However, it is time with so many divisions, ( and maybe more on the way) to have Division Specific Matches. Yes I know we have held many in the last few years and they are getting more popular. However it is not too practical to use run and gun stages for all divisions. It seems silly to have one stage fits all. Shooting PCC at 3 yards may not be very Practical. Running a 1911 for 400+ rounds a day is certainly not practical. Yes they bring the number of entries as many competitors want to shoot a lot of rounds and I get that. However, let the MD hold optional side matches to grow round count. Also, split day squads can be better for us old farts. Just sayin.

 

If the MD wants to run things this way, and the market will support it, go for it. 

I think you'll find neither of those things happening.

[Racinready300ex]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:51 AM, gerritm said:

I have pretty much shot PCC since day 1 it was approved. As far as our USPSA matches around Houston, there is no need to redesign any course of fire. There are techniques to move the PCC that do not involve sweeping or breaking the 180 up or down and to shoot it on any angle. As a 3-gun shooter I am used to running and gunning with a rifle. Problem is like anything you have to learn them and practice. 

 

My only issue has been when a MD designs the stage to mess with the PCC shooters, which has happened. Unsafe leans, one handed shots, etc.

 

gerritm

 

I can think of a stage recently they got all set up and someone said "how are the PCC guys going to do that" and I was told the response was basically "well shit...I guess they'll have to figure it out" It was a PIA for them, and the times suffered but they did it. If the designer/builder doesn't shoot PCC they can set up a stage with pistol shooters in mind that will suck for PCC and not even realize they are doing it. But, again we were told you wouldn't have to change your stage for them. But that isn't  reality.