Longest practical 9mm OAL?? (Major)

[Gregflier]

What is the longest practical 9mm OAL with a 124gr Precision Delta JHP in a 2011?

What techniques or practices contribute to success when loading long 9mm OAL's?

 

From reading here it seems like somewhere between 1.180" and 1.200" is the longest practical with the limiting issues being bullets falling out, bullet setback, or bullet tilt.  

Freebore shouldn’t be an issue for me since I measured 1.220” with the fired case technique.  SV and MBX magazines so i'm good to 1.225"++ there.

 

I’m loading on a 1050 with a Redding dies (could change to a tighter sizing die if recommended) and am planning to remove a little material from the expander in station 2 for more neck tension on jacketed bullets.  I do minimal belling and just crimp to remove the bell.  I use mixed range brass.  I try to make sure all the cases are laying on their side when spraying them with  1 Shot lube to avoid getting much lube inside the cases. I have shot a test batch of 1.200" loads over slightly compressed 3N38 without issue.

 

A little background if anyone cares..

 

I’m new to open. I am developing a load for a midlength (5” barrel) AKAI V6 2011 with 7 barrel holes.   I like the idea of loading as long as practical to keep pressures as low as possible with a gun that is going to take a lot of powder to make major.  I started out load development with 3N38 and was unable to make power factor with 8.9gr which was about the most I want to try to stuff in the case because of potential spillage.  

8.9gr 3N38 124gr PD JHP 1.190" OAL slightly compressed Win SPP  = 1273 fps or 158PF.  

 

Planning to try HS-6 next so it will likely not be compressed.  I will of course do the thumb pressure test to check for obvious setback issues.  I figure if I am successful with 1.190” the extra 0.025” is 1/3 of the way to 38SC length and softness/flatness/goodness.  

 

I realize that I would be better served by loading to 1.165” like everybody else and using this time to dry fire instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.  

 

Thanks,

Greg

[jcc7x7]

1.150-1.170 run with out problems in my 2011's depends on bullet profile

[OPENB]

Do you use STI mags with spacers, or SV or MBX without? I'm loading MG 124 CMJ to 1.17", that fit in mags with spacers. Any longer, they drag, even though my chamber will take longer.

[Hi-Power Jack]

8 hours ago, Gregflier said:

  I started out load development with 3N38 and was unable to make power factor with 8.9gr which was about the most I want to try to stuff in the case because of potential spillage.  

 

Planning to try HS-6 next so it will not be compressed.  I will  do the thumb pressure test to check for setback.

 

 

You don't have to worry much about bullet setback with the case stuffed with powder.

 

Nowhere for the bullet to go  

 

Compression doesn't seem to be a problem - lots of people here compressing their loads    

 

I don't like a case that spills, either, so I went to HS6 and WAC.  It's a good alternative for me,

and I load them at 1.165" safely, which means I have more bullet in the case.  When I loaded

longer, I did experience some problems with the bullet coming out of the case during shooting.

 

But, a little more 3n38 will make Major and fairly safely - if you don't mind the powder spillage.

 

BTW, to test for setback, I don't use my thumb -  I press the bullet hard into my reloading bench.

 

Good luck with it    

[Gregflier]

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

BTW, to test for setback, I don't use my thumb -  I press the bullet hard into my reloading bench.

 

What do you push the bullet hard into the reloading bench with?

[Hi-Power Jack]

Two fingers holding the brass.    

[Don_B]

I started shooting 9 major shortly after uspsa allowed it, probably close to 10 years ago. There was no data for this so I stumbled through it on my own, finding out what works and more importantly what did not work. 

 

What i I came up with was a oal if 1.170 with a Montana Gold 124 and 121 bullet. I use HS6 or Silhouette powder. Yes other powder will work but I have found no need to try others. 

 

Yes you can load load longer to get closer to 38 super length but you are only kidding yourself if you think that will make the 9mm perform like a 38 super. It is still a 9mm with powder that will work in the shorter case. I actually have loaded out to 1.20 but I found no real reason to do so and yes you will have problems with loads that long. Maybe not often but usually at the worst time. I much prefer the reliability to any small advantage, real or perceived, gained by loading that long. 

 

So so yes you can try to reinvent the wheel or just ride on a round one like everyone else.

 

 

[SDL]

I run 115 RN at 1.200" no problem with 9.3 HS6 for 174 pf in a Trubor. You just need a reliable crimping die when there is not that much bullet in the case. 

[SDL]

Also at 1.200" they won't fit a Glock by accident.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, SDL said:

 You just need a reliable crimping die when there is not that much bullet in the case. 

 

All about the sizing die ...    Crimping die has NOTHING to do with holding the bullet in place

in semi-auto's.   Crimp makes HUGE difference in revolvers    

[Don_B]

5 hours ago, SDL said:

I run 115 RN at 1.200" no problem with 9.3 HS6 for 174 pf in a Trubor. You just need a reliable crimping die when there is not that much bullet in the case. 

Round nose bullets can be loaded longer than hollow point bullets because of the longer profile. 

But as was mentioned the crimp is not intended to hold the bullet. 

[HalRex]

I’m thinking that you may be coming at this from the wrong perspective. Well, maybe not wrong but outside what I usually see.  The problem with 2011 guns is that they were  based on a 1911 design and, as such, built to use longer cartridges. So, most people have to load longer in order to get it to feed reliably. In my thinking , I want to load as short as possible yet still have reliable cycling realizing that with most 2011s that means 1.16 or longer (9mm). Your gun should handle the pressures just fine, but the point is to find a load that #1 is reliable, #2 shoots well (predictable sight/dot movement and “flat”) and #3 see #1.

[SDL]

With MBX mags I can run 1.16 or the 1.20 length ammo reliably.  

[SDL]

On 5/3/2018 at 3:03 PM, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

All about the sizing die ...    Crimping die has NOTHING to do with holding the bullet in place

in semi-auto's.   Crimp makes HUGE difference in revolvers    

I do like the .001" undersize die for the long 9mm. You do need a proper crimp just to make sure as much case is holding on as can be.

[Hi-Power Jack]

3 hours ago, SDL said:

 You need a proper crimp  to ensure case is holding on.

 

You need a proper crimp so the round will feed properly,

without "strangling" the bullet and affect accuracy.

 

But, you don't need the crimp (actually straightening out

the bell you produced to seat the bullet) to "hold on".     

[SDL]

I believe that when the bullet hits the ramp of the chamber, the force transmitted from the projectile to the case acts as a lever trying to pry the projectile out of the case. The more of the case length that is in contact with the projectile the more resistance there is to popping out the projectile. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, SDL said:

  The more case length in contact with the projectile the more resistance there is to popping out the projectile. 

 

True dat.    

 

Nuttin' to do with "crimp", though ...    

[SDL]

Well.. it does make sure the case is in contact with the projectile as a last step in the process.

[Hi-Power Jack]

[TWHaz]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:23 AM, Don_B said:

I started shooting 9 major shortly after uspsa allowed it, probably close to 10 years ago. There was no data for this so I stumbled through it on my own, finding out what works and more importantly what did not work. 

 

What i I came up with was a oal if 1.170 with a Montana Gold 124 and 121 bullet. I use HS6 or Silhouette powder. Yes other powder will work but I have found no need to try others. 

 

Yes you can load load longer to get closer to 38 super length but you are only kidding yourself if you think that will make the 9mm perform like a 38 super. It is still a 9mm with powder that will work in the shorter case. I actually have loaded out to 1.20 but I found no real reason to do so and yes you will have problems with loads that long. Maybe not often but usually at the worst time. I much prefer the reliability to any small advantage, real or perceived, gained by loading that long. 

 

So so yes you can try to reinvent the wheel or just ride on a round one like everyone else.

 

 

What is in the quoted post is the best for 9mm major. I have been shooting 9 major with STI mags. No spacers 1.160 to 1.170 OAL.  Silouette Powder. No issues. 3N37 is second choice but I like how Silouette performs best. Like is in the quote. It is not a 38 Super.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by TWHaz