Bianchi 2018

[Distant Thunder]

On 6/5/2018 at 3:10 AM, CPL said:

So the survey...

 

500 characters available to comment on "would you be interested in a Pro Tip clinic"

500 characters available to comment on "would you consider volunteering as match staff in exchange for free entry etc"

50 characters for...

15. What specifically could you recommend we do to improve the event?

17. Open comment area.

 

Change your management!!!
Seriously 50 characters!

 

for an example of 50 characters, see above

 

On 6/5/2018 at 10:09 AM, DWFAN said:

don't forget.. "Will you commit to bringing a new shooter to 2018 Bianchi"..

 

All they did was ignore the last survey we responded to, then asked the same crap again.

 

On 6/6/2018 at 8:21 AM, Service Desk said:

Somehow I got the feeling  that they have learned nothing and really want to learn even less.

My  .02c   ......Give the match to GV and make the NRA a naming rights sponsor, that way the name is retained, the admin and marketing is with the organisers and NRA can shed  what it no longer needs in terms of resources and costs. Sponsors may be happier to deal with GV than no-body.

 

 

Sad, just ... sad.

[thock]

On 6/5/2018 at 2:10 AM, CPL said:

500 characters available to comment on "would you consider volunteering as match staff in exchange for free entry etc"

 

I have it on good authority that Karie refused to allow match staff to shoot this year. So what is with this question?!?

[BaggerJoe]

On 6/9/2018 at 10:22 AM, thock said:

Karie refused to allow match staff to shoot this year

 

This is absolutely true. A guy that shot on my relay told me he had volunteered to work but was told he could "either shoot or work, not both". 

[8shooter]

Somehow I got the feeling  that they have learned nothing and really want to learn even less.
My  .02c   ......Give the match to GV and make the NRA a naming rights sponsor, that way the name is retained, the admin and marketing is with the organisers and NRA can shed  what it no longer needs in terms of resources and costs. Sponsors may be happier to deal with GV than no-body.
 

Safariland own the Bianchi name, let them give the match to GV and the NRA can eat a bag of dicks.

[gm iprod]

Ryan is dead on here.

 

The NRA does not own the right to the name Bianchi Cup, that name resides with Safariland however the Action Pistol National Championship does belong to the NRA, which is fine and dandy.

 

A match can be run just not with National Championship in its title unless the NRA give it their say so. Seeing as they now use this match as a cash cow for other National Champs (which lose money like a government), prizes/gifts and cash are redirected. What they don't get is that Firearms companies are not awash with cash to hand over to run these events, what they do however have is product, which when given to a particular match should go to the Competitors or Volunteer Staff AT THE PRIZE GIVING, not some shady back room deal that we, the competitors (as in paying entries), only find out about after it is posted on face book.

 

The money given should go to the match, so we don't run out of food at the BBQ, so we don't have to buy deserts at the Banquet, so that the match can be run properly with correct staff numbers on all days. I really could go on.

 

[gm iprod]

With all the s#!t that I am flinging at the "NRA" over this cock up, it is important that we stand up to those cocks and keep shooting AP. The worst thing they want is for us to make the rest of AP, (Regionals, State Champs) and all the extra shoots that are hosted (Cameron Cup comes to mind) run by individual clubs with no help from Bullshit Castle in Virginia a screaming success, this will show that they are irrelevant to us as a shooting sport organisation. These matches  that have seen increasing numbers when all around us there is chaos.    

 

The NRA needs to stick to its knitting and what it is best at, keep our rights secure. Let us run the matches. 

[kimmbeckwith]

I really think the NRA wants out of the competitions.  As a Representative of Zero Ammunition, Inc., Zero Bullet Company, Inc. and Roze Distribution, Inc., we had visited last year with the Marketing Group(Woody) of the NRA assured me that our cash awards would be presented as part of our agreement to be a sponsor last year.  Well guess what, 2nd and 3rd Junior was not presented, plaque or cash.  I sent Kerrie an email and received an email back that unless there were 6 competitors in a group the awards would not be presented this was told to her by Aaron Farmer Deputy Directer of the Competitive Shooting Division.  She forwarded the email to him and he sent me an apology and guaranteed me that they plaques and money would be sent to those competitors. He didn't realize we had this agreement with the Marketing Group.  I told them if they were not presented to send me a refund.  What were they going to do with my sponsor money?  I told them this is exactly why they are loosing Sponsors!!!!

 

This is the problem when the NRA changes staff mid stream, no communications!  If they chose Kerrie over Beth that is their decision,  but they should had let Beth run it this year and Kerrie watch to see how it is done. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by kimmbeckwith

[Csbassplayer2003]

19 minutes ago, kimmbeckwith said:

I really think the NRA wants out of the competitions.  As a Representative of Zero Ammunition, Inc., Zero Bullet Company, Inc. and Roze Distribution, Inc., we had visited last year with the Marketing Group(Woody) of the NRA assured me that our cash awards would be presented as part of our agreement to be a sponsor last year.  Well guess what, 2nd and 3rd Junior was not presented, plaque or cash.  I sent Kerrie an email and received an email back that unless there were 6 competitors in a group the awards would not be presented this was told to her by Aaron Farmer Deputy Directer of the Competitive Shooting Division.  She forwarded the email to him and he sent me an apology and guaranteed me that they plaques and money would be sent to those competitors. He didn't realize we had this agreement with the Marketing Group.  I told them if they were not presented to send me a refund.  What were they going to do with my sponsor money?  I told them this is exactly why they are loosing Sponsors!!!!

 

This is the problem when the NRA changes staff mid stream, no communications!  If they chose Kerrie over Beth that is their decision,  but they should had let Beth run it this year and Kerrie watch to see how it is done. 

 

 

 

 

That was one thing that the NRA would never come clean on. Sponsors pledge support well ahead of the actual event, and before the turnout is known. This “well we didnt get XYZ number” is pure BS. That sponsorship support is going to already be there. This is just more evidence of mis-management. I appreciate the insight.

 

BTW thank you for supporting AP, Zero. You guys always show a lot of love even for the small events and make a quality product.

[kimmbeckwith]

Thanks! 

[Service Desk]

On 6/16/2018 at 2:50 AM, kimmbeckwith said:

I really think the NRA wants out of the competitions. 

 

Sir, I believe that you have encapsulated the very essence of the problem.

[Csbassplayer2003]

That is certainly what it feels like. But in that same token, why scuttle the ship and destroy a great event if that is your goal? Why not just come clean and hand it off?

[Distant Thunder]

56 minutes ago, Csbassplayer2003 said:

That is certainly what it feels like. But in that same token, why scuttle the ship and destroy a great event if that is your goal? Why not just come clean and hand it off?

 

 

+1

[Toolguy]

I think they are just milking the cash cow till it dies of dehydration.

[Lofty]

has anyone down loaded the results of 2018 to another site.....i have been trying to access them but the nra site has decided that i am not allowed to see them...

i am from South Africa....always get ...unauthorised access .... no response to my letter to webmaster or PM on facebook.....

mods if this is inappropriate please delete

[GrantJ]

Try going through www.gvshoot.com near the bottom of the home page on the left you will see NRA/Bianchi Cup, click on that and then NRA Bianchi Cup National Championship. If that gets you in click on match scores, if you scroll down a bit you will see the choose a match banner on the left, you can go in through there to get the WAPC results. Hope this helps some but if not pm me and I will try and get the link to you.

 

GrantJ

[mfgundlach]

Kim it was a pleasure meeting you this year at the Cup, and I must say we share the same sentiments. My guys talked the cup up and I thought it would be something great. I was in greatly disappointed, The only thing that kept that match afloat was Beth Martin going out of her way to help out the competitors. I can say we will not be back next year!

[Alan550]

On 6/12/2018 at 5:35 PM, gm iprod said:

With all the s#!t that I am flinging at the "NRA" over this cock up, it is important that we stand up to those cocks and keep shooting AP. The worst thing they want is for us to make the rest of AP, (Regionals, State Champs) and all the extra shoots that are hosted (Cameron Cup comes to mind) run by individual clubs with no help from bulls#!t Castle in Virginia a screaming success, this will show that they are irrelevant to us as a shooting sport organisation. These matches  that have seen increasing numbers when all around us there is chaos.    

 

The NRA needs to stick to its knitting and what it is best at, keep our rights secure. Let us run the matches. 

    I've waited this long to respond so I could calm down from the news from Bianchi this year.  Not sorry I missed it by all indications and anecdotal evidence.  Next year will be interesting on the numbers attending......or not.

 

  In Virginia this year, we're running our annual events without NRA sanction to see how things turn out.  So far, we've lost a couple of shooters over this strategy who are only interested in National Records and Distinguished Points that the NRA doesn't recognize it seems.  We have also gained a couple more shooters who are new here, so it's a "break-even" situation at this point and we're over 1/2 full  with 3 weeks to go to deadline for entries.

 

   We were the first in the US to have a mover on rails, home-built at that, thanks to our friends in NZ who sent blueprints.  Ours is the 3rd largest AP match in the country so far, behind Bianchi and Crawfish for numbers.

 

   Pennsylvania held their annual Regional & State Championship AP matches in July and participation was down over 30% for both days from last year.  We'll see how this ends up, but at this time, I think that NRA sanction is not necessary to have successful AP events.  We've sent many thousands for dollars to them in the last few years and there has been no update on National Records or Distinguished Points since 2015 with a few exceptions.

 

   After our 2016 Regional & State Championships we submitted 30 new NRs and one tie.  None have been acknowledged or posted on the web site, so in 2017 we didn't submit either of those since there were no accurate records to use for comparison  As mentioned before, the NRA is only interested in the MONEY with no thought to the fulfillment of their obligation to keep current records and points listings for the shooters involved.

 

   If I pay someone to perform a task for me and they quit, I stop paying them!  So it is with NRA and the only AP range in Virginia!  We have donations of over $7,000 in merchandise so far and plan to spend another $2,000 for the prize tables since we can spend the NRA money on the shooters.  Everyone gets at least 2 trips to the prize tables at our matches so far.

 

   There are large AP events held every year at Michigan, Missouri, Louisiana, Virginia, Wyoming and Pennsylvania along with many  monthly matches that aren't listed with NRA bringing shooters from all over the country and Canada.  So far, we're the only event of any size to pull out of NRA sanctioning as an experiment on the viability of holding these matches on our own.  I even got an email from one of the top shooters in the country offering what I consider a bribe offering to pay the NRA fees for all our shooters if we'd get the events sanctioned!  I respectfully declined so they declined to shoot here! 

 

   As I understand it, the Bianchi/NRA contract with GV has expired, so maybe there is hope that the sport can continue without the NRA being involved.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Alan550

[FMRNRAPistolManager]

All,

 

As you all know I happily departed the NRA Competitions Division, I have severed all ties to the NRA & I will not answer calls or emails from them in any way.  To be honest I would like to completely cut ties with the Bianchi Cup but, because of my friendship with most of the competitors & John Bianchi, it has been difficult for me to not read these comments and not respond.  Even though there are people on here that write negative comments about me & censor my comments I still feel an attachment to this great Championship. 

 

What was once the fastest growing Pistol Championship in the World, is now being laid to waste away to history.  Knowing what I know about management of the Cup, until the NRA gives control of the Championship back to the Bianchi Cup Coordinator, it will not succeed.  Every dollar received from sponsors 2007 - 2014 was given to competitors in some way either cash or product.  Every item donated was given to competitors and or range staff.  We coordinated press invitations, in 2014, we had sponsors contacting us to donate, we had press contacting us to attend & cover the event.  This is when the decline started, sponsorship was turned over to NRA Marketing, Press was turned over to Media Relations, the Cup lost a lot of sponsorship opportunities because sponsors were not called back unless they were giving cash, press agencies were not called back.  Damien Orsinger, Beth Martin & I were told we could NOT speak with any press or sponsors about the Cup, all information would be passed on and followed up by Marketing & Media, that did not happen.  The only reason the 2014 Cup did not decline is because it was still climbing in every way, and no one was aware of the dismantling.  Even though the Prize table was not what it should have been, the NRA did not mess with the cash payouts.  2015 was the real beginning of the decline, evident in every way.

 

The NRA should give full control of the Championship to the the Bianchi Cup Coordinator;  Beth Martin (if she still wants it), send apology letters to every competitor, range staff, sponsor & media representative who was attached to the Championship prior to 2015.  If not, it will continue to die, the people in charge of it now have not taken ownership of it, they do not understand the history or the impact on the shooting sports.

 

I would also suggest that anyone attached to the Cup write to Wayne LaPierre, apparently everything else is being ignored.  If this was a business a lot of people would have lost their jobs, after all is said & done it is Membership money that controls everything.

 

Good luck to all of you...

 

Tom...

 

 

[Guy Neill]

My wife Loren and I have missed the Bianchi since her curt dismissal by the NRA over some sort of paperwork foul-up.  At the time she was the only person that had participated (as a range official) at all Bianchi Cups, some 30+ years.  While she was hurt by the dismissal, she accepted it.  The final straw was the nastygram I received from the NRA the following year when I asked why she had not received an invite to work the match.  She also enjoyed the years she ran one of the Steel Challenge stages until USPSA took it over.

 

Not allowing officials to shoot is not new.  I was not allowed to shoot Bianchi V because I had computerized the score tabulation and was told it was a conflict of interest.  I asked to be exempted from prizes, but let me shoot.  I was not allowed to shoot.

 

One of my worst experiences was when we transitioned to the NRA scoring program.  It did not work - at all, with respect to accepting scores.  The NRA was adamant that it had to be used and showed no concern for giving the shooters any daily results.  I think I entered the entire competitor list and scores at least three times that year.  Not a lot of sleep.

I'm sorry to hear the match is having problems.  Loren and I always enjoyed the event, and, particularly, the shooters.

 

I hope it recovers.  

 

Guy

[gmantwo]

After The Masters(another great shooting venue that was killed in its prime), the BC was always a favorite of mine. One of my sons shot it at 10 & 12 years old, and really enjoyed it. His picture on the line at the Plate Event was on the BC webpage & video for a time. We started to return in ‘16, but the writing was already on the wall by then. 

If it returns to its former glory, we might also. But I think lots of people will be reluctant to return, also the same as The Masters. It struggled for years with only Doug K returning every year as far as big names go, the rest of us vying for second or.....

[Swanny10]

I know very little about Bianchi Cup so I clicked on this thread to learn something. And I did. Unfortunately not what I wanted to. As an NRA member who is constantly bombarded with emails asking for money so they can protect the rights of, among others, sportsmen, this is enough to piss off any NRA paying competitive shooter. Regardless if they shoot USPSA, Trap, or PRS. 

 

Like I said, I don’t shoot BC. But I’m on board for anything I can do to restore some of its former glory. 

[Action Pistolero]

Shoot a club match or a regional. I know they shoot in Hutch. There's also a club in Bates City, MO. You'll get more enjoyment out of shooting those instead of Bianchi.