Pros/Cons Limited Minor

[Diegoacostalo]

I've seen more people shooting Limited minor now that in the past.  I've always thought of minor as a suicide in Limited due to lower points.  However, long stages with extra rounds (3-4 more) in minor seem as an advantage versus major.  I saw that during the 2018 Florida Open in single stack, only the first place out of the top 10 shot major, the rest were shooting minor.

 

What is your opinion?

[HoMiE]

Major > minor 

[RJH]

In limited major is king . Can't compare single stack major/ minor to limited major/ minor, two totally different animals 

Edited April 26, 2018 by RJH

[Trent1k1]

The Florida Open is a very technical match.  Everyone needs to get their hits, so since most are slowed down a little on half-targets anyway and actually aiming and not hosing, having a couple of extra rounds was probably pretty helpful.

 

The match and stages will often determine a major/minor possible advantage.  If hoser types of stages, shooting major and getting a few Charlies or even a Delta isn't as big a deal than it is in Minor.

 

If you have a bunch of arrays with 8 pieces of steel, or double swingers at 20+ yards, it isn't a bad thing to have more bullets.

[Trent1k1]

Even if there was a 24 round stage where the round count would perfectly match the bullets in a magazine, i'd still probably plan a reload, so you may as well also get the points.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I shot Limited Minor for years - still do if I don't shoot my TruBor in OPEN.

 

The advantages:   I already have the gun - a custom BHP

                                 Ammo is much cheaper (9mm vs .40)

                                 

Disadvantage:       Lose points on C's and D's.

 

Overall:   I ain't going to win anyway, so I shoot the 9mm I have rather than buying

                a new .40, and I get to stay with all 9mm for my reloading   

[RJH]

Here is the way I look at minor in limited.  Most people don't shoot all A's, so say you are a decent shooter and shot 25 non alphas, if you are shooting minor with the same hits, that is like giving up a mike/noshoot right out of the gate.  Some people will say that 9 can be shot faster or more accurately, but most that have tested this have found that not to be the case.  People tend to have the same hits regardless it seems,  I know it to be true for me personally.  Many times people will slow down shooting minor because they cant give up the points.  I think the reason you are seeing more 9 in limited is because people are using their 3 gun pistols, not because of any competitive advantage

[rowdyb]

50 minutes ago, RJH said:

  Some people will say that 9 can be shot faster or more accurately, but most that have tested this have found that not to be the case.

So if that is true, then I see no reason to have a points difference between major and minor other than it's what's been historically done and to change it would sew chaos among people invested in major pf.

 

So if the points benefit for major is to reward shooting a gun with more recoil and felt power, but there is no real difference on the clock, why give that reward?? Because that's how it's always been done....

[RJH]

32 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

So if that is true, then I see no reason to have a points difference between major and minor other than it's what's been historically done and to change it would sew chaos among people invested in major pf.

 

So if the points benefit for major is to reward shooting a gun with more recoil and felt power, but there is no real difference on the clock, why give that reward?? Because that's how it's always been done....

 

You reward the power, DVC and all that.    And I guess I should clarify, a noob with a weak grip might shoot minor faster that major, so he has to work to shoot the 40 as well and he gets rewarded with extra points.  But I would wager that c class up, ones as quick as the other.

 

Also it doesn't matter what you and I think about the rules regarding power factor, they are the rules and if a person don't care for  them I heard there is another shooting organization that doesn't use power factor for scoring......

[StuckinMS]

It is not only the power factor difference, but also the round count  difference as well, that is being settled by the point difference.  If you look back at national and even area matches you will notice that major power factor wins out most of the time.  When I shoot single stack, i always shoot for points, round count is seldom much of an advantage with just 2 extra rounds.  With 1911 or 2011 you have great flexibility in controlling recoil/ muzzle rise or dip, so my philosophy is to learn how to set up my equipment and shoot more accurately with major and squeeze out all the points possible. 

[rowdyb]

I'm being devil's advocate, not giving my own personal experience or opinion. FYI.

[Hammer002]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

So if that is true, then I see no reason to have a points difference between major and minor other than it's what's been historically done and to change it would sew chaos among people invested in major pf.

 

So if the points benefit for major is to reward shooting a gun with more recoil and felt power, but there is no real difference on the clock, why give that reward?? Because that's how it's always been done....

 

Then consider open, which is kinda the opposite, cause shooting minor actually is worse due to less gas through the comp keeping it flat.  I’m seeing more limited minor at matches, but I’ve also noticed most of it is newer shooters and the modern new shooter doesn’t seem to be as “competitively” minded.  Or at least as quick to become competitive minded.  They just there to do what they can do.  It’s very interesting to me.

[zzt]

A minor loads recoils less than a major load, and the muzzle doesn't rise as much.  No mater how good you are, you'll be faster on the second shot with minor, even if it is only a small fraction of a second.  I shot Limited major.  One club held outlaw matches where everything was scored major, no matter what was shot.  I used minor 140PF loads for those shoots and my splits were definitely faster.

 

I shoot Open major now.  I was always taught to shoot accurately.  I usually end up with 94-95% of the available points on the stage.  So shooting minor would not be a serious disadvantage for me.  I don't, because my gun won't run with anything under 172PF.  What I should try is shooting faster and settling for a couple more Cs.

[RangerTrace]

My Limited gun and IDPA gun are almost identical other than caliber.  Without question, I could shoot a bill drill faster and more accurately with the 9mm IDPA gun.  And it's more fun to shoot!!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've never owned a .40, but shot a GM's once -

didn't see any difference in recoil between his .40 Major STI

and my BHP 9mm Minor.   

 

Of course, the STI was a half pound heavier than my BHP.

[Supermoto]

I shoot 40 and 9m with the same accuracy and speed.  Split time is dependent on the speed on my trigger finger, which isn't particularly fast.  The gun is always waiting on me.  The few extra rounds doesn't out weigh the drop in points.

[GunBugBit]

I'm setting up a Limited gun that will shoot .40 major in USPSA matches, and 9mm minor (with a conversion barrel) in Steel Challenge and club Time Plus matches.

Edited April 27, 2018 by GunBugBit

[DeweyH]

21 hours ago, rowdyb said:

 

So if the points benefit for major is to reward shooting a gun with more recoil and felt power, but there is no real difference on the clock, why give that reward?? Because that's how it's always been done....

I believe the difference in power factor has more to do with the combat mindset of Jeff Cooper.   When practical shooting began they cared more about what the bullet does to the "target", not what the shooter "feels" in recoil.  More damage=more points.

[Steve RA]

True !

[rowdyb]

I don't think what we do today is something Cooper would be into. (And yes, I've taken a class at Gunsite) But still.....

 

In my area Lim minor is very popular.

[DeweyH]

We are certainly not what we started as.  I'm OK/happy with that.  I'm not sure the founders would be unhappy with where we are.  If you look at some of those old photos of their equipment,  they definitely had racing on their mind.  I am a strong advocate of limited minor.  I believe that before we add any other division limited minor should be recognized as it's own division.  I think there are more numbers there than any of the new divisions.  

[motosapiens]

22 hours ago, StuckinMS said:

When I shoot single stack, i always shoot for points, round count is seldom much of an advantage with just 2 extra rounds. 

 

I looked a year or so ago, and just under half of area matches were getting won by ss minor shooters. OTOH, no one ever wins *anything* shooting limited minor (except perhaps an all steel match like berry's open).

[motosapiens]

10 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

My Limited gun and IDPA gun are almost identical other than caliber.  Without question, I could shoot a bill drill faster and more accurately with the 9mm IDPA gun.  And it's more fun to shoot!!

 

I do find that when shooting 5-6 shots at a target (can you count, roscoe rattle, etc....) I can shoot a little faster with minor (.01-.03 on each split). On every other classifier, it makes no real difference.

[RJH]

After seeing a shooter lay down 7 consecutive .11  splits in the a zone  (4 on one target and 3 on the next one, they were close, about can you count distance) with 180 something power factor ammo, I have a hard time believing that  anything other than skill and trigger finger speed is what matters on shooting speed and accuracy , not power factor.  It does take some effort to learn to handle that recoil, but when you do I do not think you can shoot any faster with minor.  And limited minor as a division sounds like some sort of  3 gun or production shooter gayness :-) 

[RangerTrace]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:56 PM, RJH said:

After seeing a shooter lay down 7 consecutive .11  splits in the a zone  (4 on one target and 3 on the next one, they were close, about can you count distance) with 180 something power factor ammo, I have a hard time believing that  anything other than skill and trigger finger speed is what matters on shooting speed and accuracy , not power factor.  It does take some effort to learn to handle that recoil, but when you do I do not think you can shoot any faster with minor.  And limited minor as a division sounds like some sort of  3 gun or production shooter gayness

Without question there are plenty of folks who can spit out super fast split times with 40 major.  Give that same person the same platform with 9 minor and they will be faster.  Period.