P320 X5 Issues (Failure to go into battery)

[casarez]

Hey there,

 

So I picked up an X5 in anticipation of moving to it. I tried out my standard ammo (Freedom 147gr RN) on it. With the recoil spring it comes with I got failure to feed and eject. I went to a 13lb one and got the failure to go into battery. I went down to an 11lb one and am still getting failures to go into battery unless I grip the shit out of it and maintain it at all times. A lessening in any way and it does not go into battery after the first round (1/2" short or so).

 

Ammo: Freedom 147gr RN New. This comes in at 130-132PF on a Glock 34.3 and a 128-130PF on a Shadow 2 (125.2 in the cold). I brought these pistols with me along with a Q5 and all had no issues with the ammo (G34 has an 11lb spring, S2 has lower one from CZC as well, Q5 is stock).

Pistol mods: Only mods are tungsten guide rob and the spring changes. The X5 is stock otherwise.

 

Any help/advice here would be appreciated minus the "just always grip the shit out of it". While I agree having it not go into battery if I slack at all means it is not a good comp gun for me.

Edited April 25, 2018 by casarez

[ddc]

Was it a brand new gun? How many rounds do you have through it at this point?

[BLUEPSTU]

6 minutes ago, ddc said:

Was it a brand new gun? How many rounds do you have through it at this point?

This is what I was going to ask as It took about 250 rounds of factory ammo to loosen up. Even the stock spring will now spit out my lighter reloads.

[casarez]

10 minutes ago, ddc said:

Was it a brand new gun? How many rounds do you have through it at this point?

 

Yes, sorry forgot to mention that. Total rounds through the pistol is 100-120 total so far. (Roughly 20 on stock spring, 30 on 13lb, 50-70 on 11lb).

 

1 minute ago, BLUEPSTU said:

This is what I was going to ask as It took about 250 rounds of factory ammo to loosen up. Even the stock spring will now spit out my lighter reloads.

 

Really? Stock spring gives me problems every round. Going through 250 "single shot" would be highly annoying.

[BLUEPSTU]

Just now, casarez said:

 

Yes, sorry forgot to mention that. Total rounds through the pistol is 100-120 total so far. (Roughly 20 on stock spring, 30 on 13lb, 50-70 on 11lb).

 

 

Really? Stock spring gives me problems every round. Going through 250 "single shot" would be highly annoying.

I def would give it more rounds with factory ammo before I let it bother me. I used factory ammo with the factory spring and guide rod the first two times I shot it. I then went to a 1911 guide rod with a lighter spring and used my reloads and had no problems. When it is sitting in my nightstand, I put the stock spring  back in with my self defense ammo. One one occasion, I forgot to switch back to the lighter spring and went to the range with my reloads, and had no problems at all. (Although it wasn't spitting the brass to far) On several forums, I have read where a good number of us had this problem until the gun is broke in.

[casarez]

Ok but to have to “break in” a gun irritates me. None of the others needed that. 

[IHAVEGAS]

My only Sig needed about 300 rounds or so, a Les Baer about the same, a custom 2011 closer to 1000 before it was 100 percent, and my Tanfo 500 ish. 

 

It it is not Abby Normal. 

[ddc]

 

36 minutes ago, casarez said:

Ok but to have to “break in” a gun irritates me. None of the others needed that. 

 

Yeah but it is not uncommon in general. And specifically with respect to the X5 there have been a number or postings on this and other forums on similar behavior during the first several hundred rounds. My X5 didn't get reliable until around 250 but now it is tick-tock-tick-tock reliable.

[casarez]

9 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

My only Sig needed about 300 rounds or so, a Les Baer about the same, a custom 2011 closer to 1000 before it was 100 percent, and my Tanfo 500 ish. 

 

It it is not Abby Normal. 

 

Fair enough. My experience only covers glock, CZ, walther, and sig 1911 (9mm). 

4 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

 

Yeah but it is not uncommon in general. And specifically with respect to the X5 there have been a number or postings on this and other forums on similar behavior during the first several hundred rounds. My X5 didn't get reliable until around 250 but now it is tick-tock-tick-tock reliable.

 

Gotcha. 

[BillGarlandJr]

1 hour ago, casarez said:

Ok but to have to “break in” a gun irritates me. None of the others needed that. 

It's a "match" pistol and the barrel fit is a bit tighter than the other pistols you mentioned. What you're describing in terms of the types of malfunctions you're having isn't all that unusual for pistols with tightly fit barrels. I have 2 X5s and they both needed a couple hundred rounds through them before they'd run reliably with my tungsten guide rod and 14# recoils spring.

[bigeric]

a bit of grease on the ramp on the bottom of the barrel lock seemed to help when mine was new.

[ddc]

Also I switched to setup similar to what you described: a tungsten guide rod (Springer) and am using the 13# spring with no issues.

I'm guessing you'll be ok with that set up before too much longer.

[casarez]

So just to be clear: recoil spring has 0 to do with it. It is breaking in other parts of the pistol? So I put another 300-500 through it I can swap back to the stock recoil spring and it will handle the lighter loads?

[IHAVEGAS]

I am going to guess that if you look at the last inch of the barrel you will see some signs of wear between barrel & slide/bushing, sort of a visual clue to the break in process.

 

Often you can run a lighter spring after the first xxx rounds. 

[casarez]

Ok, so after 300 rounds this morning (or $60) I am still having the same issues. Unless the break in process requires full power loads for 300 or so rounds. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by casarez

[Daemunx1]

Have had zero such problems with my x5 with reasonable springs. Has anyone else tried the pistol and had the same problems? I also dont think going to a lighter spring is going help the pistol return to battery. The only time I’ve ever had the slide come forward and stop short of fully chambering the round was when I tried an 11 lb spring. A spring that light just doesnt have enough power to properly chamber a round into  a barrel so tightly fit. Biggest problem I’ve had is my thumb pressing on the slide release more than with other pistols. It has caused the slide to lock back mid-magazine and leaves me with a closed slide on an empty mag all too often. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Daemunx1

[Daemunx1]

Re-reading your post. It sounds to me like your initial ammo was just too weak and the gun is too tight to switch to a that light of a spring. I’d switch to a higher power round and wouldnt use less than a 14lb spring to start then move down to a 13lb once the gun is broken in a little more. The gun shoots quite flat to begin with so shooting a 147gr round with that little muzzle velocity shouldnt really be necessary to get it shooting comfortably. It might be fine in other pistols but as mentioned by most ppl the x5 is fit quite tightly. That could make it a little finicky with very low power rounds. 

[rishii]

Does it do the same thing with the stock guide rod and spring, if not then you found your problem

 

 

[casarez]

43 minutes ago, rishii said:

Does it do the same thing with the stock guide rod and spring, if not then you found your problem

 

 

 With the stock it adds failure to eject/feed as indicated in my post.

[casarez]

46 minutes ago, Daemunx1 said:

Re-reading your post. It sounds to me like your initial ammo was just too weak and the gun is too tight to switch to a that light of a spring. I’d switch to a higher power round and wouldnt use less than a 14lb spring to start then move down to a 13lb once the gun is broken in a little more. The gun shoots quite flat to begin with so shooting a 147gr round with that little muzzle velocity shouldnt really be necessary to get it shooting comfortably. It might be fine in other pistols but as mentioned by most ppl the x5 is fit quite tightly. That could make it a little finicky with very low power rounds. 

 

Yeah another person I trust told me to put stock spring back in and continue break in. Might head back to the range today or tomorrow.

[BLUEPSTU]

6 hours ago, casarez said:

 

Yeah another person I trust told me to put stock spring back in and continue break in. Might head back to the range today or tomorrow.

On one of the Sig forums i heard people saying to put at least 400 rounds through it. I just never had to put that many.

[ddc]

hmmmmm....so based on internet forum postings and my own experience with two X5s your gun is taking longer than most to “work itself in”… lol.

 

I posted the following over on Sig Talk about how it went with the first gun:

 

Quote from Sig Talk:

“I had the following experience with my new X5 purchased a couple of weeks ago:
First 50 rounds: Numerous failure to feed, double feeds, slide never locked back.
Second 50: Less frequent feeding issues but still a big problem, slide never locked back.
Third 50: Things started to smooth out feeding wise, still some failures, slide never locked back.
Last 50: No further feeding issues, slide never locked back.
I suspect the gun is a bit oversprung as it comes stock. You might try some +p ammo for a box or two to get things loosened up.
By the next range session I had replaced factory recoil spring assembly with Springer guide rod and 13# 1911 spring.
200 rounds without any issues, no feed issues, slide locked back every time it should have.
All shots fired were my minor power factor (130/135ish) 147 grain Blue Bullets load.”

End Quote from Sig Talk.

 

My experience with the second gun was similar but it came on line a little faster.

With that gun I installed the tungsten guide rod and 13# spring before the first range visit.

I think it was running reliably by approximately 100/150 rounds.

 

If this behavior persists then at some point you'll have to consider sending it back to Sig.

Yes that is a total bummer/hassle but based upon my interaction with their customer service department they will figure out what is going on and make it right. They would most likely email you a pre-paid shipping label. Box it up and ship it is pretty straightforward.

When they ship it back you will have to have an adult there to sign for it.

Edited April 27, 2018 by ddc
additional info

[ddc]

17 hours ago, casarez said:

So just to be clear: recoil spring has 0 to do with it. It is breaking in other parts of the pistol? So I put another 300-500 through it I can swap back to the stock recoil spring and it will handle the lighter loads?

 

In a perfect world the recoil spring and the load you are shooting would be in sync with each other.

 

The weaker a recoil spring is then the higher velocity the slide will impact the frame. This can beat up the slide and/or the frame.

Also a weaker recoil spring may not be strong enough to return the slide completely into battery.

This is behavior that can change as rounds are fired. As a gun works itself in a recoil spring that was initially too weak to reliably return a slide into battery may turn out to be more than strong enough after several hundred rounds. As a new gun works itself in the friction of surfaces sliding against each other tends to diminish.

This can also work the other way as the spring ages. At some point a spring might lose enough tension to return the slide. Time for a new spring. If you shoot a lot then consider recoil springs to be a consumable item.

The factory has to strike a balance between allowing the gun to operate with ammo that is of unknown power. It can range from +P+ down to a lower power whatever you want to call it. The lesser of two evils is to provide a recoil spring that protects the gun from the higher power loads.

That is why most guns come from the factory in what a lot of shooters would consider and "over sprung" state, i.e. a higher than necessary (with your ammo) recoil spring. That is why a lot of shooters like to play around with aftermarket recoil spring assemblies which allow easy swapping of springs.

 

If you have a failure to return to battery then using a lower power, i.e. 13#, recoil spring is most likely only going to make the situation worse. I would suggest you stick with the factory recoil spring assembly until you have reliable function. At that point start playing around with aftermarket options.

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by ddc

[ddc]

Any luck with this?

[casarez]

10 hours ago, ddc said:

Any luck with this?

 

My daughter decided to come early so I have been happily distracted. Might be a bit before I hit the range.