Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Why do the rules take away the option to compete in this class with iron sights ? if the optic is so much of an advantage, why outlaw a lesser performing sight system if one chooses to use it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 cause it is carry optics. I mean it is like even in the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 From USPSA Rules App D7 Carry Optics 13 Optical/electronic sights permitted Optical/electronic sights REQUIRED; must be attached directly to slide between rear of slide and ejection port, and may not be mounted to the frame in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said: Why do the rules take away the option to compete in this class with iron sights ? Why would you want to compete with iron sights, against people using optical sights ? Why not shoot the same gun, same COF, but against people using iron sights, just like YOU are ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Because they were afraid someone would win the first CO nationals with their Production gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 At first I thought it was a step too far to say NO Iron Sights in CO. But as in Revolver, SS or even Production there is a precedence for limiting equipment to a specific, or even generic, type. So as SS refers to single column mag, double column need not apply, Production excludes a single action only action, so Carry Optics holds true to it's name. In that light it makes sense. As a another fwiw, IPSC/USPSA was meant as a test bed for innovation. Open and Limited are the ultimate testing ground for raw equipment choices. If you think of it in that light you need to limit it to optic only to see what will hold up, to allow iron sights would then remove an incentive by allowing us to fudge on our sight choices. So the end result will most likely be quicker advancement of the slide mounted optics effectiveness and durability. Open beget the military use of optics in the most harsh conditions. We were the test bed and proving grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 You can always turn the optic off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 On 4/30/2018 at 9:16 PM, Gary Stevens said: You can always turn the optic off. Gary, are you insinuating turning off the required optic and using the co-witness sights on purpose? Sounds Gamey to me, would that lead to the rules requiring an RO having to look to see if the dot is on? I actually went the other way and took even the FS off, in for a penny, in for a pound! Besides I don't like the way the co-witness sights look on anything I've seen. I want that sleek look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 When I was shooting CO I used the Co-witnessed sights a lot. I drew to the sights, and if it was a close target I would just use them. My dot sat right on top of the FS. Rule says you have to have the optic, not use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 10:48 AM, Gary Stevens said: When I was shooting CO I used the Co-witnessed sights a lot. I drew to the sights, and if it was a close target I would just use them. My dot sat right on top of the FS. Rule says you have to have the optic, not use it Doing that seems to slow me down it is distracting, BUT it may prove to be the best option. Why I like USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Because the first carry optics nats was the day after prod nats that year. (I shot them both) and so many people leading up tonit said they'd just shoot their prod set up in CO nats. (Still 10 rounds in both at the time) There was a very real concern that an iron sight gun would win or have so many in the top placing it would call into question the validity of the new division. So a clear rule for them as a requirement was born. Also I have never run any sight other than the optic. If I have a dot I want just the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I setup a Glock 17 with XS suppressor height sights and a Trijicon RMR. The sight picture was VERY busy and even though I could use the iron sights to shoot when I lost the dot (which was all the time) I just hated that cluttered view. Sold it. Other combinations could provide a better setup. The RMR has a pretty small window to look through and the XS sights are pretty big so that may have been the perfect storm of bad sight pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 We need to ban iron sights from Open too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I have an RMR low mounted on a G19 with suppressor sights. It is a very full window. It's for carry right now, but I would remove them for competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Southpaw said: We need to ban iron sights from Open too... Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 6 hours ago, OPENB said: Why? For the same reasons it makes sense to ban them from CO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Southpaw said: For the same reasons it makes sense to ban them from CO... You mean, like, a bunch of guys are going to invade Open with iron sights and blow Open away? Groovy! Edited May 23, 2018 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 at the time, when mag capacity was same same and no one had spent any real time on the platform ( of a slide mounted, probably in teh dovetail then and 10 round gun with a different weight limit than we have now) it seemed to make sense on the surface to do so for the goal the org, not the shooters, wanted. we all know the dot is better. the issue was i think in the timing of it, right after prod nats when everyone was hot and knew the stages. it would have been the perfect set up for in the groove iron sights to make not a well practiced slide mounted optics look less sporty than it has since turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 A dude has his optic broken at our IPSC nationals. Suspiciously he realised on the stage after chrono. He got told he was going to be put in open if he ran without it and just his back up irons. Had to buy a $500 scope and mount to stay in prod optics. He probably should have smashed the glass right out and pretended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) What country IPSC Nationals ?.....almost all the IPSC Regions are running IPSC Production Optics rules that do not require an optic installed.......and as far as USPSA Carry Optics I believe you must have optic sight installed but whether they are working or not and still stay in the division I guess might be debatable Edited May 23, 2018 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Southpaw said: For the same reasons it makes sense to ban them from CO... they are not banned in carry ops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What country IPSC Nationals ?.....almost all the IPSC Regions are running IPSC Production Optics rules that do not require an optic installed.......and as far as USPSA Carry Optics I believe you must have optic sight installed but whether they are working or not and still stay in the division I guess might be debatableAustraliaSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
race1911 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) I had hoped that one of the rules of IPSC Production Optics would be that only guns with optic installed would be allowed, iron sighted Production guns have their own division and there is a different skill to attain using an optic as opposed to iron sights........but it seems there is alot of opposition to that viewpoint from various people on Global Village.........I have realized after shooting several club matches that the iron sight only guys have an advantage on shorter distance target stages and feel if only optic installed were allowed then everyone would be on an equal footing as far as sighting systems and closeness of target arrays go..........oh well, the final rules aren't drafted yet, let's cross our fingers and see what happens at this years IPSC Conference Edited May 24, 2018 by race1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 6:45 PM, Southpaw said: For the same reasons it makes sense to ban them from CO... Not Really "Open" means no limitations. Shoot a 5 shot Single Action Revolver if you want. Carry Optics is built on a limited equipment upgrade division, production. The next question is going to be, what of single action pistols with optics, such as the Kimber version? IDPA allows them at this point. Maybe allow L10 to use slide mounted Dots? That would be fun. I'm with rowdyB Shooting a Dot with irons distracts my feeble old system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZFanGrrl Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 On 5/19/2018 at 8:04 AM, pskys2 said: I actually went the other way and took even the FS off, in for a penny, in for a pound! Besides I don't like the way the co-witness sights look on anything I've seen. I want that sleek look! I did the same with my optic ready Shadow 2. I had the front sight on for about 30 minutes before I decided I did not like the added competition of the front sight for my attention. And have just focused on practicing on finding that dot. I’m slower on the dot right now, but my accuracy improved significantly and the speed will follow as I get more comfortable with the optic. I’ve only been shooting for about a year now, so the transition easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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