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When do you disengage thumb safety?


AF2010

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I'm evaluating my draw with the 1911 platform. I have always disengaged the thumb safety as soon as the weapon is pointed down range and just before achieving sight picture. 

Does anyone disengage thumb safety any earlier than this, and do you find it to be faster?

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28 minutes ago, AF2010 said:

I'm evaluating my draw with the 1911 platform. I have always disengaged the thumb safety as soon as the weapon is pointed down range and just before achieving sight picture. 

Does anyone disengage thumb safety any earlier than this, and do you find it to be faster?

Im a lowly B class single stack guy, not sure your skill level, but regardless of skill level there is probably many places you can gain that miniscule amount of time difference (shouldn't be any IMO) during the draw that won't add to the possibility of a ND or DQ.

 

Even at my current skill level, my draw to acceptable sight picture in dry fire is about .6, and that's not disengaging the safety until just as you describe.  Hand position, shoulder position and arm position, as well as eliminating any extra or extraneous movement will safely gain you a faster draw, without the risk.  

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I generally disengage it just before I get it up to where I will obtain my sight picture.  I have seen some shooters disengage it as soon as their hand comes into contact with the holstered pistol, but I feel like that would make for a pretty nasty ND.  I think the earliest place you should even consider disengaging it is after it clears your thigh/foot area.  That said, I'm just another lowly B-class shooter, so take that FWIW.

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30 minutes ago, fbzero said:

I generally disengage it just before I get it up to where I will obtain my sight picture.  I have seen some shooters disengage it as soon as their hand comes into contact with the holstered pistol, but I feel like that would make for a pretty nasty ND.  I think the earliest place you should even consider disengaging it is after it clears your thigh/foot area.  That said, I'm just another lowly B-class shooter, so take that FWIW.

They probably should re-evaluate that technique. That’s a DQ’able offense. 

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44 minutes ago, fbzero said:

  I have seen some shooters disengage it as soon as their hand comes into contact with the holstered pistol, but I feel like that would make for a pretty nasty ND.

Why would you believe it would be anymore dangerous than drawing a striker fired gun with no external safeties? Follow rule 3 and it's not an issue, regardless of the platform.

 

15 minutes ago, robb315 said:

They probably should re-evaluate that technique. That’s a DQ’able offense. 

 What rule does that fall under? I've never seen anything in the rules that say a safety must be engaged after a COF has begun.

 

Part of acquiring your master grip, is getting your primary thumb on top of the safety on a 1911/2011. That happens during the draw and disengages the safety.

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35 minutes ago, dthomas1003 said:

What rule does that fall under? I've never seen anything in the rules that say a safety must be engaged after a COF has begun.

 

10.5.11.1

Specifically the part at the end that says,

“All these conditions apply the entire time the handgun is in the holster. See 8.1.2.4”

 

And if you ever re-holster a live gun during the COF, it has to meet the specific ready condition, so the safety would have to be re-applied before holstering. That’s 8.2.5. 

Edited by robb315
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That's while in the holster. The act of drawing the gun removes it from the holster and the safety does not need to be engaged. The second you break retention, it is no longer a holstered pistol.

 

The biggest disagreement I have is the assertion that a 1911 is more dangerous with the thumb safety off. That is an old wive's tale and it frankly is just untrue. Violating the 4 cardinal rules is what makes any weapon dangerous.

Edited by dthomas1003
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16 minutes ago, dthomas1003 said:

That's while in the holster. The act of drawing the gun removes it from the holster and the safety does not need to be engaged. The second you break retention, it is no longer a holstered pistol.

Correct.

I was quoting/referring to the post where he sees guys click it off while in the holster. 

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Correct.
I was quoting/referring to the post where he sees guys click it off while in the holster. 


If after the buzzer, you decide to click off the safety, assuming your strong hand draw is in process, then it doesn’t matter as long as you are in control of the firearm.

I know too many competitors who’s process involves a safety disengage sweep during the draw. Seems normal, and they are in control.
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2 hours ago, FortyOverUnder said:

 


If after the buzzer, you decide to click off the safety, assuming your strong hand draw is in process, then it doesn’t matter as long as you are in control of the firearm.

I know too many competitors who’s process involves a safety disengage sweep during the draw. Seems normal, and they are in control.

 

They should be getting it at least downrange before sweeping it off, if they do it before fully clearing holster, that is a terrible habit.  I don't care how "in control" they are, it can fail them.  Much like the people who swear serpa holsters are fine for competition, until they end up with serpa leg....  Sweeping it off any sooner than pointing it down range is not going to make you draw faster, and a terrible habit. Will it be ok 99.9% of the time? of course, but why risk it for something that isn't saving you any time? Most of us SS guys do it very similar to what MM showed in the video, around the time weak hand makes contact and getting sight picture.  That is the point where you are establishing the correct grip. 

Edited by DsWright
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16 hours ago, dthomas1003 said:

Why would you believe it would be anymore dangerous than drawing a striker fired gun with no external safeties? Follow rule 3 and it's not an issue, regardless of the platform.

 

 


Honestly, as long as you are always following rule #3, there should be no issue.  You are 100% correct about that, but the faster people go, the more like they are to make mistakes.  No matter how fast you draw, if you leave the manual safety on until you clear your body, you're not going to leave with any extra holes that you didn't have at the beginning of the day.  I'm not comparing apples to oranges here.  If you can have an added level of safety at no real cost to your performance, there is no reason not to do it, regardless of whether it's any different than drawing a striker-fried pistol.  Just my two cents; I'm not here to impose my will on anyone else.  You do you.

Edited by fbzero
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I practiced hard at the beginning to get the sequence down.  I went slowly and deliberately, then faster and faster until it was committed to muscle memory.  I draw, meet my weak hand and extend my arms.  I take the safety off while reaching forward and put my finger on the trigger while the gun is pointing toward the target, just before I get a sight picture, or as I get it.  That cured the problem of occasionally firing a round prematurely.  By prematurely I mean gun pointed down range, but sight picture not yet acquired.  That happened twice and rattled me.

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  • 3 months later...

I disengage the safety at about 45* through my draw but my finger doesn’t enter the trigger guard until my support hand is just about to make contact.

It’s become second nature so I had to slow mo it to know for myself:)

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I disengage (thumb stays on) after the muzzle clears the holster, but is pointed low and downrange on the way up... well before my support hand comes on. 

Trigger finger stays along the frame/trigger guard until both hands get full extension to the target. 

I prematurely launched a few embarrassingly poor initial hits when I reached full extension by punching out aggressively with my trigger finger in place.  BANG ?   

Hit the IPSC target, but not exactly where I wanted! 

Don't believe that would happen these days as I'm much smoother, but it is already deeply ingrained to keep off the trigger and place my finger deliberately.

 

 

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Usually after I pull the trigger once and realize the safety is still on.

 

Just kidding, I disengage the safety when support hand meets the grip and I'm extending the gun. This could be done a bit later in my draw but i dont think it would hurt or help any time gains. 

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About midway between the holster and weak hand. Feels natural, acquiring my grip that way. Also, any later would cost time on the rare weak-hand transfer. With a single-sided safety at least. 

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I came up the 5 step Gunsite method.

 

1. Strong hand to grip, off hand to center of chest.

2. Lift the pistol to retention, (level), and swipe safety off. You are ready to fire at that point.

3 4 and 5 follow.

I think of the USPSA method as 3 steps with the safety coming off on the 2nd step which is lifting the gun and having both hands meet in the center of the chest but not yet extended.

 

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