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rougeqc21

9mm Minor - Getting into Reloading

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Hey folks! New to pistol reloading and wanting to get the process down in my head before the last of my equipment arrives. Coming from precision rifle so this isn't all foreign to me, there just seem to be added considerations.

 

It seems like for coated bullets, like the Bayou 135s I ordered, that case mouth expansion is critical so as not to swage the coating to expose any lead. So, the first question is how much expansion are you looking for when loading coated vs when loading jacketed.

 

On the crimp, similarly, is there a difference in the amount of crimp desired vs when loading metal jacketed? Are you worried about deburring the case mouth at all? I'll be loading on one of the Mk7 evolutions that should be coming in shortly. Pushing the 135s with n320 and win primers. Looking forward to the journey! As far as dies, got the redding micro taper, comp seater, and carbide sizer. 

Edited by rougeqc21
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I load Bayou 147's and expand the mouth so that the mouth sits just below the lube groove. Seems to work fine. You want just enough bell so the bullet won't tip when seating or shave the coating off the lead.

 

Try to remove just the bell when you "crimp". Then do a push test to be sure there is enough tension on the bullet to prevent setback and you should be good to go. Avoid overcrimping as it will cause lots of problems.

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Okay, you have fantastic dies.  I use the same.  Your problems will not be die-related.  ;) 

Belling for coated isn't so much about swaging as it is about scraping.  You're simply going to have to tinker with belling until you get no coating cut.  You'll be able to see it when it's cut.  It will scrape/bulldoze it upward along the bullet as the bullet goes into the case, and you'll end up with coating built up around the case mouth when the bullet is fully seated. 

 

It doesn't take much, though.  Don't go for a large bell right away, trying to get it on the first try.   I would recommend you bell a tiny bit, so little that maybe you can't even see it, more like you have to feel for it with your fingertip, and test it.  If you aren't getting coating built up around the case mouth, you have belled enough.  If you ARE getting that, you need to bell a little more.  It's worth it to damage the coating on a few bullets and work your way larger to make sure you have the minimum bell you need.  You COULD bell big right off the bat and make sure it was enough, but you would more than likely be over-belling, and that's not good either.  Start with a minimal bell, and work up from there until it's right.

 

I do not deburr case mouths.  As to crimp, there are means to determine the "proper" taper crimp measurement for every bullet you use, but it's usefulness is questionable.  The proper crimp is affected by headstamp.  Different cases will have slightly different case wall thicknesses, so if you're using mixed brass, there's no way to determine the right crimp.  Even if you wanted to go the extra distance of sorting by headstamp (no real benefit at the distances you shoot pistol), even if you did, different cases will have different case lengths, which means they don't all travel the exact same distances into the die, which means you're getting crimp variation anyway.  And do NOT case trim to compensate for that.  That is not useful with straight wall pistol cases that headspace off the case mouth because these cases actually shrink as you reload them.  If you case trim, you're worsening headspacing.  The taper inside a taper crimp die is so gradual that different length cases aren't going to have enough variation to matter.  My point with all of that is that there's some inherent variation built into the crimp, which makes establishing the exact right crimp difficult, AND there's not enough of an effect on your precision in shooting to put much effort into it.

SAAMI spec for case mouth diameter is .380.  As long as you crimp to that or smaller, you'll have no function problems.  Some people crimp to .377 for .355 jacketed bullets, then add .001 per .001 increase in bullet diameter for different bullets.  Some set there crimp large enough for any bullet they might use and never touch it again.  I'm in the latter category.  Right now, my taper crimp die is set to .379.  I load mostly coated lead, both the standard lead diameter of .356 and some over-sized at .357. 

If you might worry that not crimping enough will cause a problem with securing the bullet in place, do not worry.  In cartridges that use taper crimp, it's the neck tension that holds the bullet in place, not the crimp, and crimping too much can actually reduce neck tension below the mouth. 

 

Currently, you are using .356 coated lead.  I'd set the taper crimp at .378 and not worry about it.  Then maybe down the line, after I'd completed other components of load development, I might run some strings .001 smaller and bigger to see if it affects accuracy.
 

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Thank you for the very detailed response, IDescribe! You read my mind in that I was wondering if case trimming was going to be worthwhile or not, haha. I am procuring mixed headstamp brass so the comment is directly applicable. The idea of a set and forget crimp is definitely on point too. Overall it seems like taking my time on figuring out the right amount of belling will get me setup and on the right path. Just need to order the expander and I feel like I am that much more ready to get going.

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Don't overcomplicate it (Is that a word ?) .   :)

 

The least amount of bell is best, as long as it's not scraping the coating off the bullets.

 

Simple.

 

Taper crimp is even easier - there is no crimp - it's just removing the bell.   Same for

lead, coated or jacketed bullets.   Once you've set the crimp, it will feed in your

chamber and be accurate, and once set, that's it - you can change anything else

and the crimp stays the same.

 

Have fun   :)  

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Get the Mr bullet feeder powder funnel. It puts and step instead of a bell. The bullet sits more in line with the brass.

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On 4/22/2018 at 1:18 AM, zombywoof said:

Get the Mr bullet feeder powder funnel. It puts and step instead of a bell. The bullet sits more in line with the brass.

 

^^^This^^^

 

After loading rifle handgun 9MM is really simple so don't over complicate it.

 

challenges with range brass include:

  1. Steel mimicking as brass, check with a magnet.
  2. Crimped primer pockets. Swage or sort them out.
  3. Some chambers bulge the bases a bit more than others.
  4. OAL is very gun and bullet profile specific. Do not rely on what others tell you is a good length, plunk, spin and test fire for consistent feed to see what length works.diameter
  5. Do not dent (damage coating of) the bullet by over crimping! (Set crimp by testing with multiple different brass and then pulling bullet. The outer diameter of the crimp is far less important than not denting the bullet)
  6. Get a Hundo case gauge.Stick with WST or Federal primers when loading.

 

When you have the load that works shoot and shoot often. 

Edited by HesedTech

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So far I have liked W231 for my power in 9mm. Loading both 124gr polycoated SWC and 147gr Polycoated FP. I use Hornady Die set in the Dillon 550 and dont use the dillon funnel to bell the cases, Hornady die in 3rd position is expander and 4th position is Seat and Crimp in 1. So far so good. If you have recomendations for loads for 9mm with W231 let me know.

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