Focal Plane in 2-10X Optics

[GorillaTactical]

Hey All,

 

As part of a move to open, I'm considering a new optic for my rifle.  I'm currently running the Vortex Razor JM1.  I've already added a 45 degree dot and shot a few matches with it.  For everything inside 30 or so yards, I'm feeling very fast with the dot; so much so that I'm considering ditching the 1x requirement for my primary optic (I haven't used it once since adding the dot).  That combined with the fact that I'm standardizing my optic collection to mils and that the razor's weight has had me considering other options in the past, has me looking to Nightforce...

 

Unlike the design of the Vortex 2.5-10's PST (FFP) reticle, which I find too thin, I'm actually a fan of the NF Mil-R.  That said, the NF doesn't offer a FFP option and I'm left questioning whether or not that makes sense for our application in 3 gun.  I especially like the idea of having the full reticle at 2.5x as that'll likely be where the scope is left for all of the "bay" stages I shoot, and out to 200/300 I'm happy with just using the center cross-hair to hold basic POA-POI, regardless as to what I'm dialed to.  But as I stretch out further and begin to actually need to use the reticle, I'm concerned that I won't be spending too much time on 10x, simply as a product of the type of "long range" shooting we do where target acquisition plays a major role, and therefore, won't actually be "using" the reticle.  I have approximately the exact opposite concerns for the PST - FFP; meaning I can actually use the reticle, but having looked through them, they're so fine that for me, they'd be almost useless on anything less than 6x.  

 

So I'm curious what the prevailing thought process is for this...does SFP make sense on a 10x for 3 gun?  In reading through various threads, it seems people are 50/50.  I've looked at the NF 1-8 as well, but I'm not a fan of the center dot of 1.25moa.  I've grown to like the .5moa center on my razor, and can't imagine going more than double that.  I suppose there's always the thought process of just sticking with the razor.  I like the idea of 8x or even 10x in specific circumstances, but certainly don't think they're requirements for 99% of the "LR" targets we are presented with.

Edited April 13, 2018 by GorillaTactical

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 minutes ago, GorillaTactical said:

 I like having the full reticle at 2.5x as that'll likely be where the scope is left. 

 

I won't spend much time on 10x, because target acquisition plays a major role .   

 

If I were to leave my scope at 2.5x for most shooting, and hardly ever use 10x, not

sure I'd want to switch to a 10x.   

[GorillaTactical]

2 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

If I were to leave my scope at 2.5x for most shooting, and hardly ever use 10x, not

sure I'd want to switch to a 10x.   

 

Believe me...certainly part of my thought processes.  That said, I figure if I'm going to open, might as well take every single advantage I can get, including the specific circumstance once or twice per match where I'd use a 10x.  

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you're using the dot, why not go to a 4x-16x, then ?

 

(Being serious, I've considered it myself).

[GorillaTactical]

40 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

If you're using the dot, why not go to a 4x-16x, then ?

 

(Being serious, I've considered it myself).

 

At 40-60 yards on smaller targets, or even at 25 yards on a no-shoot target where I might not use my hoser dot, I feel 4x is too much (I see too much sway in the optic and it's difficult to track).  Also back to weight, getting into the higher magnifications generally equates to more weight...im really looking to reduce weight opposed to maintain or add.  I truly feel that 3gun is a game of 1-10x, with the core being 1-8x or maybe even 1-6x, and as such, feel the higher magnification optics would be mostly wasted.  But who knows, I've not shot with anything greater than 6x to date, so it's hard to say how often I'd use the top end.

[Suff]

I've used a wide variety of optics on the open gun over the years (2.5x10, 1x6, 1x8) and have decided I prefer a 1x8 FFP with the secondary red dot. I have found many times I still want 1x on the main optic for tight shots, plate racks and stars at the end of a bay, etc.

[Tampa-XD45]

Since we don't have to range our targets via the reticle, I think the whole SFP vs FFP argument is a moot point.  Does it really that the FFP's reticle stays the same size at all magnifications?

 

[Doug H.]

Over 6 power I would prefer FFP for 3 gun.  A couple of years ago at Rocky Mountain we used a rifle sling on one of the long range stages.  I had a lot of trouble hitting targets past 200, my zero range, and later found that the power ring had moved from 6x to 3x.  That meant the hold overs on my Swaro 1-6 BRT (SFP) were only worth half of what they should have been (e.g. a 2 mil hold, about 27" for a 400 yard target, would only be worth 1 mil or about 13.5").  With a 1-6 scope I can run at full power on long shots where the holds are correct.  With a 8 or 10 power scope I probably wouldn't want to use full power all the time and SFP reticles would not be correct.  FFP reticles would be correct regardless of what power is chosen.

 

Doug  

Edited April 17, 2018 by Doug H.

[wgj3]

2 hours ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

Since we don't have to range our targets via the reticle, I think the whole SFP vs FFP argument is a moot point.  Does it really that the FFP's reticle stays the same size at all magnifications?

 

Incorrect. If using reticle for holdovers, gotta have the FFP reticle so that 3.2 mil holdover is the same at 4x or 6x or 10x...

[wgj3]

13 minutes ago, Doug H. said:

Over 6 power I would prefer FFP for 3 gun.  A couple of years ago at Rocky Mountain we used a rifle sling on one of the long range stages.  I had a lot of trouble hitting targets past 200, my zero range, and later found that the power ring had moved from 6x to 3x.  That meant the hold overs on my Swaro 1-6 BRT (SFP) were only worth half of what they should have been.  With a 1-6 scope I can run at full power on long shots where the holds are correct.  With a 8 or 10 power scope I probably wouldn't want to use full power all the time and SFP reticles would not be correct except at Max power.

 

Doug  

This!

[Tampa-XD45]

20 hours ago, wgj3 said:

Incorrect. If using reticle for holdovers, gotta have the FFP reticle so that 3.2 mil holdover is the same at 4x or 6x or 10x...

yeah good point.  I guess I've only used my 1-6 SFP at 1 or 6.

[bushmeat]

To the OP, I've used a Vortex PST SFP 2.5-10x44 with a FF3 on a 45degree mount. The FF3 comes into play up close to 40 yards. Would use 2.5x for shots to 100 and 10x for anything over that. IMO, FFP is unnecessary in 3gun and the reticle is useless in the lower range. I just make a habit of checking my magnification ring.