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Just wondering what an average draw speed is? I have been shooting steel challenge for a couple years now during the spring summer season here in Minnesota now (once a month) for a couple of years. My draw and fire is an average 1.7 sec at 10 to 15 yards if I want to hit the target. Reading on this forum I see times of 1 second or less with very few post of slower times. What can I do to speed things up?

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Posted (edited)

Dryfire. Your dry fire will be about 20% FASTER (mistake corrected) than your live fire. So to hit a second you need to be at 0.8 in dry fire. 

 

Also, you need to decide off your target is an A zone hit, or just hitting the brown. Hitting an A zone at 15 yards in 1.0 seconds is definitely a good time.

Edited by selecw

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Dryfire. Your dry fire will be about 20% slower than your live fire. So to hit a second you need to be at 0.8 in dry fire. 
 
Also, you need to decide off your target is an A zone hit, or just hitting the brown. Hitting an A zone at 15 yards in 1.0 seconds is definitely a good time.
I'm certainly no math whiz, but wouldn't that be the other way around? If dry fire is 20% slower, wouldn't 1.2sec dry fire = 1sec live fire?

I know I dry fire practice at a MUCH slower pace to concentrate on each aspect, from garmnt clear to grasp to draw to grip to sight alaingment to trigger press - and everything in between. Live fire confirms what I've been practicing in dry fire.

Repetition > Refinement > Reinforcement.

Wyatt Earp: "You have to learn to go slow in a hurry."

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, old558 said:

Just wondering what an average draw speed is? I have been shooting steel challenge for a couple years now during the spring summer season here in Minnesota now (once a month) for a couple of years. My draw and fire is an average 1.7 sec at 10 to 15 yards if I want to hit the target. Reading on this forum I see times of 1 second or less with very few post of slower times. What can I do to speed things up?

Make sure you minimize movement.   Get your gear set up in the right place where your hands can come straight down from surrender position and fall onto the gun grip just by rotating at the elbow only.   The less you have to move to complete the draw, the faster you can get.  Next you need to decide on the draw method: Max Michele Jr likes to very aggressively attack the grip kind of a quick grab and snatch,  Doug Koenig likes to be a little smoother and almost swoop the gun out of the holster.  Watch their you tube videos and practice both until you can decide which works best for you.   There are other pro shooters these are just the 2 that came to mind first.  Once you decide on the draw style and can repeat your gear placement use a par time to practice your draws.  Set a standard  for yourself ( like having to beat the timer 5 times in a row before lowering your par time).   Practice live at further distances, like 40 yards.  If you consistently practice at 10 yards you will become good at 10 yards, mix it up.  Stay after it, it will come.

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On the forums you probably have a solid third of the people claiming a sub one second draw, but at a match you won't see those times. People like to remember their best times. If I set up an open target at ten yards where only A hits count I would be hitting 1 second after a few attempts, but on my first run I bet I would be pulling off a 1.2 or 1.3 draw. 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/26882?q_result=5&q_division=2

 Stage 6 of 2016 nationals was a draw to one shot. I think it was a ten yard popper, but I'm not sure. Only 22 shooters were under a second. A 1.7 second draw gets you 138th on the stage. The draw is more important to your overall score in steel challenge so I'm sure more shooters would be under a second at a steel challenge match. 

 

 With a 1.7 second draw you are probably moving unnecessary body parts during the draw and over aiming when the gun is on target. Watch some videos of top shooter drawing and then film yourself. They will just move their arms, you are probably moving everything. I would bet that any reputable dryfire routine will get you close to a one second draw in under a month. Five days a week 15-30 minutes per day of practice no distractions and setup is not included in the time.  Get ben storeger's  dry fire book and follow one of the training plans.

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2 hours ago, SkippySanchez said:

I'm certainly no math whiz, but wouldn't that be the other way around? If dry fire is 20% slower, wouldn't 1.2sec dry fire = 1sec live fire?

I know I dry fire practice at a MUCH slower pace to concentrate on each aspect, from garmnt clear to grasp to draw to grip to sight alaingment to trigger press - and everything in between. Live fire confirms what I've been practicing in dry fire.

Repetition > Refinement > Reinforcement.

Wyatt Earp: "You have to learn to go slow in a hurry."

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

 

 

Yes. Typo corrected. Thanks!

 

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1 hour ago, Captiontom said:

On the forums you probably have a solid third of the people claiming a sub one second draw, but at a match you won't see those times. People like to remember their best times. If I set up an open target at ten yards where only A hits count I would be hitting 1 second after a few attempts, but on my first run I bet I would be pulling off a 1.2 or 1.3 draw. 

https://practiscore.com/results/new/26882?q_result=5&q_division=2

 Stage 6 of 2016 nationals was a draw to one shot. I think it was a ten yard popper, but I'm not sure. Only 22 shooters were under a second. A 1.7 second draw gets you 138th on the stage. The draw is more important to your overall score in steel challenge so I'm sure more shooters would be under a second at a steel challenge match. 

 

 With a 1.7 second draw you are probably moving unnecessary body parts during the draw and over aiming when the gun is on target. Watch some videos of top shooter drawing and then film yourself. They will just move their arms, you are probably moving everything. I would bet that any reputable dryfire routine will get you close to a one second draw in under a month. Five days a week 15-30 minutes per day of practice no distractions and setup is not included in the time.  Get ben storeger's  dry fire book and follow one of the training plans.

 

This also applies to reloads. No problem doing a 1 sec reload in dry fire. In live fire and matches, it's about 1.3-1.4.

 

 

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My suggestion: set camera looking at you from the side and record video of yourself at slow mo if you can (most today's smartphones or gopros can do slow mo), basically record whole sequence of events that happen, i.e. beep goes off, your hand start moving, grabbing handle, pulling gun out, moving it up, etc, the whole thing few times, then watch and study what you do and where are the delays that you can shorten, for example I think I you may have a delay between timer's beep going off and your hand starting to move, you can probably easily shave off 0.1 - 0.2 seconds there, then possibly also when your hand lands on the grip it may rests there for another 0.1-0.15 seconds before you start moving gun out of the holster, etc. Then for things you want to improve address them individually, for example: if you hesitate too long after beep goes off, find yourself an exercise that improves your reaction time, if you grab a pistol but dont start pulling it out fast enough, isolate that particular motion and work on it and then re-integrate it into whole draw sequence. 

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OP, are you asking about times for SC or USPSA?

 

 

If you're asking about times for USPSA type shooting I'd suggest buying Ben Stoegers Dry fire Reloaded or Skills and Drills Reloaded (or both). Those books will have the info you seek plus so much more.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

This worked for me. 

 

I broke up the draw into pieces and worked on them individually.

 

First I set a par time of like 0.6 or so, and just work on reacting to the front of the beep, and get your hand to to gun. I did this for a few minutes. 

Then, 

Same par time, start with hand on gun, and draw to a target. I did this for a few minutes. Do NOT pull the trigger.

Then,

I put it all together, with a 1.0 sec par time, but do NOT pull the trigger. 

 

Why don't pull the trigger ? 

I will be too easy to cheat the drill. To pull the trigger before your sights are on the target. 

And

Once you get better, and can get your sights on the target in 0.8 the extra time will allow you to let the sights settle. This visual patience is also an important skill. 

Edited by BikerJon

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On 4/10/2018 at 6:49 PM, selecw said:

Dryfire. Your dry fire will be about 20% FASTER (mistake corrected) than your live fire. So to hit a second you need to be at 0.8 in dry fire. 

 

Also, you need to decide off your target is an A zone hit, or just hitting the brown. Hitting an A zone at 15 yards in 1.0 seconds is definitely a good time.

I use a 10 inch steel Target at 10 to 15 yards a fast time for me would be 1.3 seconds

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Just want to say thanks to everyone for the helpful information. I will definitely give most of these a try and I definitely need to spend more time at dry fire practice. Thanks again for the help. 

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I suggest do all the above & then I have an exercise for you that will speed up your draw. Your avg draw is 1.7.  Set your timer for random start & a par time of 1.8.  Beep, draw, be ready for par beep w trigger prepped sights on target, par beep, break shot.  Repeat until it seems an eternity for that par beep.  Make sure your shots are hitting your target!!!! Now move par to 1.7.  Repeat.  When youre waiting an eternity, lower par another tenth to 1.6.  Repeat.  Continue this lowering par until you cant beat it.  Always always hitting your target.  When you get par so low, you are unable to beat it, remove the par.  Random start, draw, prep trigger, sights on target, break shot.  You should see a significant drop in your draw speed plus if you have always hit your target during the exercise, you should see an increase in your first shot accuracy.  This like all practice to build skills only works if youre honest with yourself & follow through with each step & always hit your target.

You can use this exercise on close huge targets or far small tight shots, doesnt matter.  Just give yourself plenty of par time when you start the exercise to know you can hit your target with solid draw, grip, trigger prep & follow through.  Training isnt done to impress your friends, its done to help you get better.  THEN you impress friends..... lol

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On 4/10/2018 at 5:29 PM, old558 said:

Just wondering what an average draw speed is? I have been shooting steel challenge for a couple years now during the spring summer season here in Minnesota now (once a month) for a couple of years. My draw and fire is an average 1.7 sec at 10 to 15 yards if I want to hit the target. Reading on this forum I see times of 1 second or less with very few post of slower times. What can I do to speed things up?

 

I'm here with you in the slow boat. In live fire training I see lots of 1.4 - 1.7s draws, and 1.9 - 2.1s reloads.

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steel challenge is a surrender draw. change your hand and arm position so that you can just rotate your forearms down at the elbow to the gun versus rotating the whole arm down from the shoulder. and most my steel challenge draws are 1.3 btw.

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8 hours ago, adamge said:

 

I'm here with you in the slow boat. In live fire training I see lots of 1.4 - 1.7s draws, and 1.9 - 2.1s reloads.

 

Sounds like me :cheers:

 

I compensate for my slow draw by shooting lots of As and my slow reloads by not reloading! :roflol:

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steel challenge is a surrender draw. change your hand and arm position so that you can just rotate your forearms down at the elbow to the gun versus rotating the whole arm down from the shoulder. and most my steel challenge draws are 1.3 btw.

This right here ^^^

 

I start with my thumbs in against the corners of my glasses, palms down, fingers gently curved. On the beep my right hand rotates down to my grip and my left hand stops at my sternum so I don’t waste movement. After I get a solid grip I bring the pistol up to meet my left hand and secure the grip while pushing out.

 

I can hit sub 1 sec draw on a USPSA paper target (depending on distance), but for Steel Challenge a 1.2-1.3s draw with accurate first shot will usually deliver a faster overall string than a 1 sec draw to a miss with makeup shot and extra mental pressure from the miss.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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15 hours ago, rowdyb said:

change your hand and arm position so that you can just rotate your forearms down at the elbow to the gun versus rotating the whole arm down from the shoulder

 

Why don't you like rotating the whole arm from the shoulder? I have found this to be more consistent than rotating from the elbow for me (I think there are fewer variables with this method) and it doesn't appear to be any slower at all. I get a dry grip, set the angle of my elbow, then rotate my arm as a unit.

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I suggest do all the above & then I have an exercise for you that will speed up your draw. Your avg draw is 1.7.  Set your timer for random start & a par time of 1.8.  Beep, draw, be ready for par beep w trigger prepped sights on target, par beep, break shot.  Repeat until it seems an eternity for that par beep.  Make sure your shots are hitting your target!!!! Now move par to 1.7.  Repeat.  When youre waiting an eternity, lower par another tenth to 1.6.  Repeat.  Continue this lowering par until you cant beat it.  Always always hitting your target.  When you get par so low, you are unable to beat it, remove the par.  Random start, draw, prep trigger, sights on target, break shot.  You should see a significant drop in your draw speed plus if you have always hit your target during the exercise, you should see an increase in your first shot accuracy.  This like all practice to build skills only works if youre honest with yourself & follow through with each step & always hit your target. You can use this exercise on close huge targets or far small tight shots, doesnt matter.  Just give yourself plenty of par time when you start the exercise to know you can hit your target with solid draw, grip, trigger prep & follow through.  Training isnt done to impress your friends, its done to help you get better.  THEN you impress friends..... lol

 

This is very welcome advice. I'm not a competition shooter, and compared to what others are posting as slow pokes, I shouldn't even be in the room. 

About six months ago I decided I should either get serious and stop wasting time and ammo or just find something else to do. Playing around and just punching holes in paper and plinking tin cans was getting boring and expensive.

 

I had no plan. To "get better" is a fuzzy goal resulting in an even fuzzier strategy.

 

Anyway, I've begun incorporating the above advice in my dry fire routine to help establish a baseline and an accurate measure of progress. Amazing what 15 minutes a day can accomplish.

 

Thanks!

 

_________________________

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2018 at 9:48 AM, mlmiller1 said:

I suggest do all the above & then I have an exercise for you that will speed up your draw. Your avg draw is 1.7.  Set your timer for random start & a par time of 1.8.  Beep, draw, be ready for par beep w trigger prepped sights on target, par beep, break shot.  Repeat until it seems an eternity for that par beep.  Make sure your shots are hitting your target!!!! Now move par to 1.7.  Repeat.  When youre waiting an eternity, lower par another tenth to 1.6.  Repeat.  Continue this lowering par until you cant beat it.  Always always hitting your target.  When you get par so low, you are unable to beat it, remove the par.  Random start, draw, prep trigger, sights on target, break shot.  You should see a significant drop in your draw speed plus if you have always hit your target during the exercise, you should see an increase in your first shot accuracy.  This like all practice to build skills only works if youre honest with yourself & follow through with each step & always hit your target.

You can use this exercise on close huge targets or far small tight shots, doesnt matter.  Just give yourself plenty of par time when you start the exercise to know you can hit your target with solid draw, grip, trigger prep & follow through.  Training isnt done to impress your friends, its done to help you get better.  THEN you impress friends..... lol

I really liked this advice along with some of the others. I am now setting the par time to 1.4 sec. I now wish I could set a second par time to see how fast I can be on second target. Anyway with everyone's help I have gotten my rig set up better and started  dry fire practice everyday for at least 30 min ( surprised how fast time goes). I think I am on my way to getting at least close to 1 sec. draws.

I am in MN and it is snowing very hard outside now

ha ha so I cant get out and practice. Next weekend is the first steel  challenge outside event for me, I hope it goes well. 

thanks for all the help

Edited by old558

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On 4/12/2018 at 11:16 PM, adamge said:

 

I'm here with you in the slow boat. In live fire training I see lots of 1.4 - 1.7s draws, and 1.9 - 2.1s reloads.

Than you for speaking up, I think there are many more of us. Glad I am not alone.

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4 hours ago, old558 said:

I really liked this advice along with some of the others. I am now setting the par time to 1.4 sec. I now wish I could set a second par time to see how fast I can be on second target. Anyway with everyone's help I have gotten my rig set up better and started  dry fire practice everyday for at least 30 min ( surprised how fast time goes). I think I am on my way to getting at least close to 1 sec. draws.

I am in MN and it is snowing very hard outside now

ha ha so I cant get out and practice. Next weekend is the first steel  challenge outside event for me, I hope it goes well. 

thanks for all the help

 

I have the SHOTMAXX-2 watch timer and it will pickup the dryfire initial trigger pull.  Using this you could set the par for the second target time and then get the time for the first target trigger pull.  

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Skippy sanchez & old558, youre welcome.  Keep me informed on your progress.  Its an amazing drill & exercise, wish I remember where it came from....lol.  It can be used for reloads also.  If you can find the time to spend an hour or 2 at the range & run this thing, I predict in 200rds of ammo that you can reduce your draw time by 40%  & increase your first shot accuracy quite a bit depending on your present level of accuracy.  Took my latest student from 2.6 to 1.35s in a half hour & 100rds running this !  Her accuracy doubled on a 10yd uspsa target.  Almost every shot was going solid into the A zone.  Crazy.    

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On 4/14/2018 at 3:32 PM, SkippySanchez said:

This is very welcome advice. I'm not a competition shooter, and compared to what others are posting as slow pokes, I shouldn't even be in the room. 

About six months ago I decided I should either get serious and stop wasting time and ammo or just find something else to do. Playing around and just punching holes in paper and plinking tin cans was getting boring and expensive.

 

I had no plan. To "get better" is a fuzzy goal resulting in an even fuzzier strategy.

 

Anyway, I've begun incorporating the above advice in my dry fire routine to help establish a baseline and an accurate measure of progress. Amazing what 15 minutes a day can accomplish.

 

Thanks!

 

_________________________

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

You should give steel challenge a try, way more fun than shooting paper. Where I shoot it is pretty informal all you need is a gun a few magazines( 4 if you have them if not someone will reload for you ) and a holster if you have one if not you can shoot low ready. We have a wide variety of shooters  at all levels and most are willing to help out a new shooter. I have seen people loan magazines and guns, give bullets when needed, help with repairs you name it. I have shot a few USPSA events and they  are really fun but at 60 with bad knees I don't move to fast. That doesn't stop me though, I do the best I can and have some younger friends that do well and are fun to watch. Besides matches around here are 15 to 25 dollars, cheaper than an hour at an indoor range and 100 times more fun. 

 Sorry for the long wind, but give it a try. This year I plan to give some of my shooting young friends a bit of a go. All in fun of course.

Best of Luck

 

 

 

 

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I forgot to add that the friend that got me started shooting said if I just took my time and hit the target;s I would finish in the top half and that you can not miss fast enough. He was right. Probably why my draw is so slow ha ha. Take care and best of Luck

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