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Taccom ULW barrel/Light weight PCC. Is there such a thing as too light?

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Made it back to the range today with a high tech improvement.  I duct taped several ounces of junk metal to the handguard just behind the muzzle.  Not enough weight to be noticeable but enough that it seems to partially tame the dot movement.
 
To be continued.

Is it dot bounce you are trying to tame, or A zone double taps for USPSA?


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3 minutes ago, 1911luvr said:


Bring me the upper tomorrow and I’ll take it home and ream it for you. You can run pretty much anything after that.


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Nah it’s good, thanks. I’ve got a load made for it that runs in my 1911 too so I don’t need to fix what aint broken at this point.  I’ll be there early tomorrow for set up but will have to leave after the first go around. Am planning to experiment and shoot both PCCO and PCCI with the same gun, just swapping the optic on and off at every stage.  Optic first, then irons.  We’ll find out how well an ADM mount holds zero by the end of the day!

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Nah it’s good, thanks. I’ve got a load made for it that runs in my 1911 too so I don’t need to fix what aint broken at this point.  I’ll be there early tomorrow for set up but will have to leave after the first go around. Am planning to experiment and shoot both PCCO and PCCI with the same gun, just swapping the optic on and off at every stage.  Optic first, then irons.  We’ll find out how well an ADM mount holds zero by the end of the day!


That mount is great for holding zero, so if you just remember which T number you’re on, you should be fine.

I’m skipping PCC tomorrow I think as I’m out of my preferred ammo. Probably going to be just a RFRO and RFPO day for me. Need to work on my pistol shooting for the State Championships in June!


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2 hours ago, 1911luvr said:


Most top shooters use a separate mag for each string. That makes the gun’s starting weight the same for every string, and keeps unnecessary weight down. I use six 10 round mags and load after each stage.


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I'm moving into that direction as well. Just need to order two more mags.

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2 hours ago, 1911luvr said:


Is it dot bounce you are trying to tame, or A zone double taps for USPSA?
 

 

I'm trying to minimize the dot movement.  It took a while but with my 16" PCC and my super special reloads, the dot has very little movement.  I'm able to do sub-.20 second splits seeing the dot exactly where I want it for both shots.  Now I'm spoiled and want to be able to do the same with the ULW barrel.  The only difference between the two guns is the barrel.  

 

With the ULW bbl I'm waiting on the dot to return and and get slower split times.  As for A zone double taps, I could possibly pick up the pace and still be OK but that will take more time on the range.

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interesting......I guess I never really was too worried about dot bounce as much as I was worried about full on splits and how far apart my shots were. We've never heard of anyone waiting, as the impulse of the ULW barrel has a faster impulse than a 16" rifled barrel. I mean, that has been to the claim all along on that ULW barrel. So I do find this interesting.

 

 

 

Edited by TRUBL

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13 hours ago, TRUBL said:

interesting......I guess I never really was too worried about dot bounce as much as I was worried about full on splits and how far apart my shots were. We've never heard of anyone waiting, as the impulse of the ULW barrel has a faster impulse than a 16" rifled barrel. I mean, that has been to the claim all along on that ULW barrel. So I do find this interesting.

 

 

 

 

Possibly its my technique or maybe just old age. 

 

Using a metric target at 7 yards with my 22LR trainer splits are usually .14 to .16 sec and the shots will be within 2" of each other.  With my 16" barrel I can get the same hits on target but a bit slower splits at .18 or .19 sec.   Add the ULW barrel to the mix, I"m over .23 sec.  With the ULW I can do a .19 split but the first hit will be in the center of the lower "A" zone and the second will be either high left just inside the "A" zone or over the line into the "C" zone.

 

This is using loads tuned to each gun.

 

It took a while to tune my 16" gun and loads to shoot this well.  I may not have hit on the perfect load or the perfect spring/buffer/bolt selection for the ULW or like I said, it could be technique or old age.  The old age part is what started me on a search for a lighter gun.  Goal was met when I dropped the 16" gun's 7# 6 oz weight  down to the ULW's 5# 14 oz weight.

 

Suggestions are always welcomed.

 

p.s.  The ULW is the gun I will use when I have targets past 60 yards.  None of my 16" barrels group well at that distance and beyond.  The ULW with jacketed bullets is GTG out past 100 yards,

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I'm an old guy.......so my splits anymore, mean ZERO......my son on the other hand, that's different story. He's running in the .15-.17 area.......and well, he's moved on to the MPX, but both him and Sam are getting 2 to 3 inch spreads at 10yards, with the second shot being up and to the right (both right handed shooters). Both are telling me......they are only aiming once and double tapping. If you are taking an aimed second shot you are too slow and if you are doing .15 splits and say you are aiming.....hmmmmmmm....no

 

Tim

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2 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

 If you are taking an aimed second shot you are too slow and if you are doing .15 splits and say you are aiming.....hmmmmmmm....no

 

 

Take your .22lr at the range.  Hold on tight and you will see that the dot don't move and .15 splits both aimed is not all that tough.  I'm from the old school where its not two shots with one sight picture.  Its two shots with two sight pictures.

 

I tried the one sight picture and multiple shots a few months back.   The stage was a single metric target at 4 yards with 5 shots Virginia Count.  I was told my splits were around .13 -.16 but it looked more like I shot the target with a shotgun, not a PCC.

 

I did mis-speak on my earlier post when I said the second shot is "high left".  Its actually high right (about 1 o'clock from the center of the target).

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only one thing........at .15 splits........you may think you have 2 sight pictures......but in that amount of time, it is IMPOSSIBLE to process the sight picture and take the shot.......like I say, I always hear it.......and I always know.,.....it's BS. Do the closed eye thing.......I've known too many M's and GM's.......the honest ones will submit, they have one sight picture, at least one solid sight picture, and one ehhhhhhhh maybe sight picture.

 

I am old s'kool too........and at my age, I probably could have 2 sight pictures now.........but nope, you don't.....not at those speeds

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Yup Tim, if you can't do it, no one can.  I may be old but I'm not senile.  I know what I can see.  And its not the first time in the past week or so your mouth got ahead of itself.

 

You make a good product and when I'm in the market I don't hesitate to order from your website.  But I bet there are others not as tolerant as me.

 

Good luck and goodbye.

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17 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

Yup Tim, if you can't do it, no one can.  I may be old but I'm not senile.  I know what I can see.  And its not the first time in the past week or so your mouth got ahead of itself.

 

You make a good product and when I'm in the market I don't hesitate to order from your website.  But I bet there are others not as tolerant as me.

 

Good luck and goodbye.

At least he didn't call you an idiot as in other posts

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Flatlander.....knows his shit.....only thing is.....it is physically impossible on the second shot......to see the sight transmit that info to move the sight, then transmit to snap off the shot....in that amount of time.....yes, impossible....you may see that the sight is there, but you are not doing anything about getting it in to position to take the next shot, you are transmitting to take the shot, nothing more.......maybe in .28 to .30......but not at .15 to .17 to say you are......you may think you are correct.....but you are in fact....incorrect. good Day.....and buh bye......oh....and I was right the first time too.....like now

 

Edited by TRUBL

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Tim, a sight picture is just that ... a picture of the sight on the target.  It does not mean that he cleaned it up in .15-.17, it just means that he saw it break and knows where it went.  He knows if he needs a make-up shot, or if it was good enough.   

 

Unless I am mistaken, Flat has an M card, and that generally means that he knows something, or once knew something.   As someone who once "knew something" myself, it kinda chaps you when someone who can't see something, tells you that you can't see what you are actually seeing.  

Edited by L9X25

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you may be able to call the shot that happened.......you may be able to have a sight picture.....but it is NOT like the first sight picture......to say it is, is to lie

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14 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

you may be able to call the shot that happened.......you may be able to have a sight picture.....but it is NOT like the first sight picture......to say it is, is to lie

 

L9x25 is right.  I cannot and never claimed to be able to clean up my shot at .15 sec (22 LR trainer).  I'm holding the gun tight and the dot does not move. Then it a matter of how fast I can pull the trigger.  Like I said earlier, I can fire two rounds with my ULW barrel but they are not 2 inches apart.  And I see that when I shoot it.  My goal is either through mechanical means or technique get the gun to tame down.

 

And it is like the first sight picture......when I say it, its the truth.

 

Actually I'm a bit disillusioned.  I don't know a lot of M and GM shooters and we don't really talk about such mundane things as double taps. But the few times it has come up its been two shots with two sight pictures.  All this time I didn't realize they were not honest with me.

 

And L9, "As someone who once "knew something" is not the nicest complement I got today.  :)

Edited by Flatland Shooter

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10 minutes ago, TRUBL said:

you may be able to call the shot that happened.......you may be able to have a sight picture.....but it is NOT like the first sight picture......to say it is, is to lie

Hmmm...   if I may weigh in from a different perspective, I’m a Steel Challenge shooter, and when I’m dialed in (it happens on occasion), I’ll see a miss and make a pickup shot stupid fast that is aimed better than the first miss. How fast?  Dunno, but it can be REALLY fast.  I think less than .2 is possible but only guessing. 

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2 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

And L9, "As someone who once "knew something" is not the nicest complement I got today.  :)

 

Flat,  that was more a description of me, than you.  I likely got my "M"  about 20 years ago, but am not shooting at that level anymore.

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Hmmm...   if I may weigh in from a different perspective, I’m a Steel Challenge shooter, and when I’m dialed in (it happens on occasion), I’ll see a miss and make a pickup shot stupid fast that is aimed better than the first miss. How fast?  Dunno, but it can be REALLY fast.  I think less than .2 is possible but only guessing. 

Agreed. We joke about missing fast, but I’m often able to nail a blisteringly fast makeup shot because I instantly reacted to the sight picture I had when pulling the trigger. This usually means I had not stopped the gun before firing, and had left (or bounced off) the target when I pulled the trigger. I’ve already reacted to sight picture of the miss and fired again without thinking about it. Not sure I could consciously do that, but I can tell you (or jkrispies can tell you) that there were two sight pictures and the split is certainly about that time. In case it makes a difference, jkrispies has been a GM a lot longer than I have, so I pretty much value his experience and opinion above most since he’s been there and done that enough to know.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, 1911luvr said:

In case it makes a difference, jkrispies has been a GM a lot longer than I have, so I pretty much value his experience and opinion above most since he’s been there and done that enough to know.

 

 

In that case, please stop beating me.  :bow::D:bow::D:bow:

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For my ULW I use the Taccom 3 stage buffer and a JP Carbine .223 spring to produce a nice 2" pattern.   I get similar on the KVM barrel with the Blitzkrieg/Smalley and JP 308 spring.

 

147/3.2 Titegroup

 

To me it sounds like everyone is saying the same thing.  Me personally....  On a .15 split...  I see the dot rise and fall on both shots, but cannot redirect shot two.  It lands where it lands.  I call where it landed and decide whether it was where I wanted it or not.  Some may call that second shot a sight picture.  They are correct.  There was a picture.  I was unable to change it substantially, but I did see it.  Some may say that makes it a double tap.  They are correct as well.

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