Taccom ULW barrel/Light weight PCC. Is there such a thing as too light?

[alvinsmith75]

Not exactly sure how to ask this question.  I guess it's a multi part question so lets see.

First I'll say that I shoot Steel Challenge and USPSA.  I have recently lightened my PCC by adding the CODA 13.5" carbon fiber hand guard and Smoke Composites C.F. stock.  The gun feels amazing to me and as far as what I'm used to it's perfect.....or is it? 

Its current weight is 5lbs. 11.5oz.

QC10 upper and lower(glock mag)

Faxon 16" barrel(thread protector)

Taccom extreme 9mm BCG(weight removed)

.223 spring

8oz. buffer

Elftmann AR10 trigger

Holosun HS510C dot

Total BCG/buffer weight is just under 20oz.

I am considering going with the Taccom ULW barrel which would really lighten the gun overall. 

My concerns are:

Will it be too light?  As in, will it be too light to absorb recoil resulting in unwanted dot movement?

Will the recoil be "different"?  I keep hearing that the ULW barrel produces a different feeling all together.

The good thing is that the ULW barrel is fairly inexpensive overall.  I know I will have to alter my PCC loads with the much shorter barrel.  I also shoot production with a CZ SP-01 so I have plenty of load data for it.

Soooo....what's your feedback on the barrel and my situation?

 

Thanks.

 

[MikieM]

Your gun is almost perfect just the way it is. I say almost because if you are at the 130 PF mark you could go to 6.5 ounces on the buffer weight, and perhaps a heavier action spring. A Sprinco red, say, or perhaps a blue. Hotter loads then you may be just right.

 

The ULW will give you a sizeable jump in your dot.

 

I believe a shooter can go too light the same as he can go too heavy. It mostly depends upon the shooter. Personally, I think 6 pounds is about right.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by MikieM

[longbeard]

Quote

Will it be too light?  As in, will it be too light to absorb recoil resulting in unwanted dot movement?

Will the recoil be "different"?  I keep hearing that the ULW barrel produces a different feeling all together.

It won't be too light.  I shoot mine regularly and switch back and forth between it and my 16" KV PCC.  The balance is different, but I don't think one has a substantial difference over the other in performance.  The recoil is different.  The ULW has a quick impulse, and is also louder.  Perhaps the dot moves more, but it comes right back.  

 

I don't think you can go wrong with the ULW.  I love mine, and shoot it a lot.  Remember that it's easy to get caught up tinkering in PCC, and while changes to your rig do have an impact there aren't many that make up for just shooting what you have more.

 

 

[alvinsmith75]

9 minutes ago, MikieM said:

Your gun is almost perfect just the way it is. I say almost because if you are at the 130 PF mark you could go to 6.5 ounces on the buffer weight, and perhaps a heavier action spring. A Sprinco red, say, or perhaps a blue. Hotter loads then you may be just right.

 

The ULW will give you a sizeable jump in your dot.

 

I believe a shooter can go too light the same as he can go too heavy. It mostly depends upon the shooter. Personally, I think 6 pounds is about right.

 

 

Thanks!  I am very happy with the way it is now But tinkering and testing are fun too.  Figured I'd ask around before I went any further because it does feel so good the way it is.  I do have some video of a Steel Challenge match I shot last Sunday and you really can't see any muzzle rise.  It's not like the gun is heavy for me at all, just trying to find the best combo for me.

[alvinsmith75]

1 minute ago, longbeard said:

It won't be too light.  I shoot mine regularly and switch back and forth between it and my 16" KV PCC.  The balance is different, but I don't think one has a substantial difference over the other in performance.  The recoil is different.  The ULW has a quick impulse, and is also louder.  Perhaps the dot moves more, but it comes right back.  

 

I don't think you can go wrong with the ULW.  I love mine, and shoot it a lot.  Remember that it's easy to get caught up tinkering in PCC, and while changes to your rig do have an impact there aren't many that make up for just shooting what you have more.

 

 

Agreed with the part about tinkering lol.  That's a big part of the fun for me.  I shoot it quite a bit.  No less than 1 match a weekend.  Always more when possible.  Thanks for the feedback.  What load are you shooting with your ULW barrel?  I'm currently shooting 125gr BBI over 3.3gr N320 at 1.085 oal for 135pf.

[MikieM]

1 minute ago, alvinsmith75 said:

Thanks!  I am very happy with the way it is now But tinkering and testing are fun too.  Figured I'd ask around before I went any further because it does feel so good the way it is.  I do have some video of a Steel Challenge match I shot last Sunday and you really can't see any muzzle rise.  It's not like the gun is heavy for me at all, just trying to find the best combo for me.

 

Experimentation is fun as long as it doesn't interfere with matches, or practice. Sometimes a second gun can allow a person to do both. 

[alvinsmith75]

Just now, MikieM said:

 

Experimentation is fun as long as it doesn't interfere with matches, or practice. Sometimes a second gun can allow a person to do both. 

With all the parts I'm upgrading a 2nd gun isn't out of the question lol.  Plus my son likes to shoot PCC as well!

[longbeard]

2 minutes ago, alvinsmith75 said:

Agreed with the part about tinkering lol.  That's a big part of the fun for me.  I shoot it quite a bit.  No less than 1 match a weekend.  Always more when possible.  Thanks for the feedback.  What load are you shooting with your ULW barrel?  I'm currently shooting 125gr BBI over 3.3gr N320 at 1.085 oal for 135pf.

Out of the ULW I currently shoot.

 

147 SNS/3.2 Titegroup for around 140pf

125 SNS/3.2 Titegroup for around 120pf (steel load)

 

 

[longbeard]

3 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

Experimentation is fun as long as it doesn't interfere with matches, or practice. Sometimes a second gun can allow a person to do both. 

Agreed!

I built the second so I could tinker and not worry about not having a match gun.

[gerritm]

One thing it seems like all the MD's around here are doing is screwing with the PCC shooters by putting ridiculous left & right hard leans around corners & barrels. Nice thing with the ULW PCC is throw a laser on it and 1 hand it. Love mine, well actually my granddaughter confiscated it.

 

If you are concerned about accuracy with the short barrel, I have shot full & half poppers @ 80 yards with it and she has shot a 6 plate 6" plate rack at 100 yards with no trouble in a UML match.

 

gerritm

Edited April 10, 2018 by gerritm

[Flatland Shooter]

I agree with Gerrit on the accuracy of the ULW barrel.  I was trying to build up something to shoot UML matches (steel at 100 yards possible) and spent a lot of time and bullets trying to get decent groups at 100 with several PSA and Spinta barrels.  Some others may be able to do it but I had poor results.

 

Just for grins I mounted a ULW barrel I got around Thanksgiving and found much better accuracy.  With an 18x scope and 121 gr MG IFP bullets I was able to group under 2".  Also got good results with 125 gr MG JHP and 125 gr Zero JHP.   

 

What I'm still trying to get used to is the difference when shooting.  I really like the light weight (gun comes in at 5# 12 ounces and over a pound lighter that my ususal PCC) but it will take time for me to get comfortable with it.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Flatland Shooter

[alvinsmith75]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  Much appreciated.   I checked the weight of the ULW vs my Faxon with thread protector.  Exactly 7oz lighter.   My gun would be 5lbs. 4.5oz with optic!  Or 4lbs 12.5oz. without!   That's insane!.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have found yes you can make it too light for a USPSA pistol match. I like a little weight up front to keep the muzzle settled a little better for me. For steel challenge make it as light as you can. Thanks, Eric

[MikieM]

47 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: I have found yes you can make it too light for a USPSA pistol match. I like a little weight up front to keep the muzzle settled a little better for me. For steel challenge make it as light as you can. Thanks, Eric

 

I tend to agree with Eric, on this.

[alvinsmith75]

Thanks again.  Here's some video from Sunday of an Outlaw Steel match as well as my son running the Kriss Vector for the first time.

 

 

[jkrispies]

Building a gun is a lot like fitting a suit— you and I may look like we’re the same size, but we’ll each get different cuts and swear ours is the best.  Just do you and don’t sweat everyone else’s opinions too much, as long as your happy.  If you’re not happy, then I would say that having a second gun to experiment on is well worth it if you can afford the investment.  I use one lower that I perfected (for me) on my 5.56, and I then shot a factory PCC upper for awhile as I tinkered with my own upper I built from scratch.  Now I’m in love with my personally built upper and may well sell the other one after state championships are past, or just keep it as a backup.  The one I love?  Folks look at it and don’t understand why I have it at all.  Who cares?  

 

Having said all that...  Yes, too light is possible, just as too heavy is possible.  For my taste, I choose to go lighter on the barrel and keep the weight in the stock and mid section for soaking up the impulse energy.  6 pounds and some change, and I’m happy.  That means a ULW and a lightweight handguard.  

 

For loading, YMMV, but my two ULWs run a little hot compared to my 5” Bar-Sto barreled 1911, about 5 power factor.  I’ve tried 115, 125, 135, and 147.  Lighter bullets have a nicer impulse so I shoot Zero 115’s now even though it costs me a bit more than the lead heads.  

[alvinsmith75]

9 hours ago, jkrispies said:

Building a gun is a lot like fitting a suit— you and I may look like we’re the same size, but we’ll each get different cuts and swear ours is the best.  Just do you and don’t sweat everyone else’s opinions too much, as long as your happy.  If you’re not happy, then I would say that having a second gun to experiment on is well worth it if you can afford the investment.  I use one lower that I perfected (for me) on my 5.56, and I then shot a factory PCC upper for awhile as I tinkered with my own upper I built from scratch.  Now I’m in love with my personally built upper and may well sell the other one after state championships are past, or just keep it as a backup.  The one I love?  Folks look at it and don’t understand why I have it at all.  Who cares?  

 

Having said all that...  Yes, too light is possible, just as too heavy is possible.  For my taste, I choose to go lighter on the barrel and keep the weight in the stock and mid section for soaking up the impulse energy.  6 pounds and some change, and I’m happy.  That means a ULW and a lightweight handguard.  

 

For loading, YMMV, but my two ULWs run a little hot compared to my 5” Bar-Sto barreled 1911, about 5 power factor.  I’ve tried 115, 125, 135, and 147.  Lighter bullets have a nicer impulse so I shoot Zero 115’s now even though it costs me a bit more than the lead heads.  

Great info, thanks.

[jkrispies]

1 hour ago, alvinsmith75 said:

Great info, thanks.

Thanks, but I reread my post and realize that despite all the words, I didn't really explain what I meant by light front/heavy rear well enough to help a person determine how they can properly build a gun to their taste/purpose.

 

A rifle is a lever with the fulcrum at one end:  the butt against your shoulder.  Think back to high school physics with the way weight is distributed on this type of a lever if you're lifting on the opposite end of the fulcrum (he front of the stock where your hand is):  weight near the fulcrum will feel light and the same weight at the opposite end will feel heavy.  

 

Relating this to guns, if you have two guns of the same weight, you can build them to handle differently based on where you distribute the weight.  If I want the gun to be stable through the shot, I'll put the weight on the barrel (think heavy barreled varmint rifles).  If I want the gun to swing fast and stop fast, then I'll put the weight to the rear and give it a lighter front end.  

 

I mainly shoot Steel, so I want the gun to swing fast, and since there's no second shot before going to the next target, I don't care much about stability.  Having said that, I can do a pickup shot wicked fast with my 6ish pound gun if I had too-- this tells me that mine will do just as well in USPSA as Steel Challenge.

 

Taking this philosophy to your gun right now, you have a very cool and lightweight carbon fiber stock, and a Faxon barrel that could be lighter.  I would theorize this:  if you built a second gun of the same weight with a ULW barrel and a heavier stock (I like the DoublestarvSOCOM stock) that shifts the weight more to the rear, then you will have a gun that will swing and stop faster, absorb the recoil impulse similarly in terms of feel, but potentially be a bit more bouncy on the dot.

Edited April 11, 2018 by jkrispies

[alvinsmith75]

14 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Thanks, but I reread my post and realize that despite all the words, I didn't really explain what I meant by light front/heavy rear well enough to help a person determine how they can properly build a gun to their taste/purpose.

 

A rifle is a lever with the fulcrum at one end:  the butt against your shoulder.  Think back to high school physics with the way weight is distributed on this type of a lever if you're lifting on the opposite end of the fulcrum (he front of the stock where your hand is):  weight near the fulcrum will feel light and the same weight at the opposite end will feel heavy.  

 

Relating this to guns, if you have two guns of the same weight, you can build them to handle differently based on where you distribute the weight.  If I want the gun to be stable through the shot, I'll put the weight on the barrel (think heavy barreled varmint rifles).  If I want the gun to swing fast and stop fast, then I'll put the weight to the rear and give it a lighter front end.  

 

I mainly shoot Steel, so I want the gun to swing fast, and since there's no second shot before going to the next target, I don't care much about stability.  Having said that, I can do a pickup shot wicked fast with my 6ish pound gun if I had too-- this tells me that mine will do just as well in USPSA as Steel Challenge.

 

Taking this philosophy to your gun right now, you have a very cool and lightweight carbon fiber stock, and a Faxon barrel that could be lighter.  I would theorize this:  if you built a second gun of the same weight with a ULW barrel and a heavier stock (I like the DoublestarvSOCOM stock) that shifts the weight more to the rear, then you will have a gun that will swing and stop faster, absorb the recoil impulse similarly in terms of feel, but potentially be a bit more bouncy on the dot.

I like where you're going with the Steel Challenge vs USPSA.  I am favoring S.C. with my PCC right now and want to get back to Production for USPSA.  With that said it may be worth it for me to try the ULW barrel with my current setup as well as loading a lighter power factor for S.C.  Then just try it for USPSA, can't hurt. This is so much fun lol.  Thanks again for all of your input.

[alvinsmith75]

So I ordered the ULW barrel just now.  Next question is:  Is there any justifiable reason to load a longer OAL bullet for the ULW barrel with the longer throat as compared to my short throat Faxon barrel?  Yes I know I will need to re tune and play with power factor.  Current OAL is 1.085"

[longbeard]

6 minutes ago, alvinsmith75 said:

So I ordered the ULW barrel just now.  Next question is:  Is there any justifiable reason to load a longer OAL bullet for the ULW barrel with the longer throat as compared to my short throat Faxon barrel?  Yes I know I will need to re tune and play with power factor.  Current OAL is 1.085"

Not really.  I keep things simple and use the same loads through both of my PCCs.  The 16" has a higher PF than the ULW, but it's really not a big deal.  You can go nuts trying to make different loads for two guns IMO

Edited April 11, 2018 by longbeard

[jkrispies]

12 minutes ago, alvinsmith75 said:

So I ordered the ULW barrel just now.  Next question is:  Is there any justifiable reason to load a longer OAL bullet for the ULW barrel with the longer throat as compared to my short throat Faxon barrel?  Yes I know I will need to re tune and play with power factor.  Current OAL is 1.085"

I found my ULW throat to be short as well.  

[alvinsmith75]

Easy enough.  Thanks guys.

[wyliearms]

Didn't want to read through all the posts but in my humble opinion, yes. I like a gun around 6.5 pounds. I've had some pretty blazing times with a 7.5 pound PCC so I decided to drop some weight and see if I could pick up some speed. I got down to about 6.5 and had to adjust to it. I went from averaging 6's on stages like Smoke and Hope and Showdown and moved into the 8's because I was over swinging targets and it bounced more. I've adjusted my load and style to the 6.5 gun but I'm still not where I was with the heavier gun but I think it is in doable range but I'm not going lighter. Shoot what you have, get used to it and tweak in small increments. I pulled that pound out 2 weeks before Nationals and my times suffered from my stupidity.

[TRUBL]

53 minutes ago, alvinsmith75 said:

So I ordered the ULW barrel just now.  Next question is:  Is there any justifiable reason to load a longer OAL bullet for the ULW barrel with the longer throat as compared to my short throat Faxon barrel?  Yes I know I will need to re tune and play with power factor.  Current OAL is 1.085"

We have one of the longer throats out there.......1.085 will work with ease.