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egldriver

Using 231 or WST for .45 ACP major

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I am reloading .45 acp with the intent to shoot CDP in IDPA. I need to make major power factor. I am trying 231 and WST but am having a hard time getting the velocity I need. I tried 5.5 grains of 231 with a 200 gn xtreme round nose at 1.250, Sellier and Belliot primers. My 5 shot string was:

620
730
768
668
697

Pretty pathetic. I then tried 4.8 grains of WST, same parameters and got:

741
755
748
775
765

Better but still no cigar. I shot this with a Les Baer 5" and a Wilson CQB 5" with similar results. I then upped the WST to 5.0 grains, almost max according to Hodgeon and was getting barely 800 FPS. It is cold, around 35 degrees. The 5.0 WST load was very snappy so I'm not going any higher. I don't know if my chrono is messed up, the temp is affecting the powder or what. My crimps are all good and all rounds fit through a Hornady case gauge. Ideas? 

Dave

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shooting 200 gn I need at least 825 FPS. I'd like a little margin so my goal is 850 FPS. I don't want to load 230 gn just because I have a lot of 200 gn. 

 

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I'm at 4.8 of wst with a 200gr bayou swc, CCI lp,1,250oal

Get 172-175 pf out of several custom built guns.

Try a friend's Chrono and work at keeping the shots in the middle of the screens. Might run them back to back to test your chrono.

Just a thought

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I tried it again at about 60 degrees. A little better but still not there. Some other guys shot different rounds (.45 and 10mm) and they thought the results were right so I think the Chrono is ok. I tried just a lead round nose thinking that the plated xtremes where doing it but it was the same. It looks like I can push 231 a little over 6 grains so I will give that a try. I am shooting a stock les Baer custom carry so I would think the barrel is good.

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Looks like 6gns of 231 to get it done. My plated bullets are giving jacketed ballistics according to the hornady reloading manual

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I have been loading 4.9 gr wst and 200 bayou swc. At matches with chrono it's been at 175- 177 pf. I've loaded some at 4.8 but  haven't tested them yet. Shooting a Wilson cqb 5".

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6 hours ago, MHicks said:

I have been loading 4.9 gr wst and 200 bayou swc. At matches with chrono it's been at 175- 177 pf. I've loaded some at 4.8 but  haven't tested them yet. Shooting a Wilson cqb 5".

Yea...I don't get it. I'm going to get some factory rounds and put them over the chrono. I really like WST but it's not working for me. I have checked all my reloading parameters and everything  is within spec.

 

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It’s the bullets....I had some .452 lead bullets so I loaded a few. They are right on the money. The xtreme .452 bullets are actually .451 perhaps because they are double struck. I got in the neighborhood of 900 FPS with the lead with 6.0 gns of 231...right in line with the loading manual. It is possible the xtremes are not sealing properly. They are supposed to interact like lead bullets so that’s my best guess.

 

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Here is what I'm getting with (Australian) Clays.

 

 

Clays (492x640).jpg

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I literally just did this today with 200gr Round nose Flat Point.

 

Large primer and small primers noted.  I typically don't see a difference in FPS with primer size change, However the CFE really doesn't like small primers.  I gave up trying to get a good major PF load with CFE and small primers.  Small primers and 5.0 Gr titegroup is an EXCELLENT accurate and soft shooting load.  The CFE made major, but was very harsh, and had to much of an FPS spread.  Also the smell of CFE is repulsive to me when shooting a ton.

.45 Data.jpg

Edited by DsWright

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Try some of those SNS 200's when you get em.  Hope you figure it out.

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11 hours ago, egldriver said:

what brand of bullets?

 

Summers enterprises, .452 200 gr RNFP, Hitek coated

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I use 231 for my major load. Not exactly your recipe but 5.0gr under a 230 jacketed RN 1.250

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Some early results, not yet confirmed, indicate that S&B primers may be mild.  The same loads using CCI primers gave higher velocities.  I do intend to explore this further when I can, but it may be part of the performance seen in the original post.

I did not see a primer listed in DsWright's post.

 

More tests are planned.  The brief initial test was with 9mm.

 

Guy

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Also - for years a fairly standard loaded using Win 231 was 5.7gr for 200gr LSWC in the 45 Auto.  Back when almost everyone used 45's.

 

Guy

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On 9/24/2018 at 7:55 PM, Guy Neill said:

Some early results, not yet confirmed, indicate that S&B primers may be mild.  The same loads using CCI primers gave higher velocities.  I do intend to explore this further when I can, but it may be part of the performance seen in the original post.

I did not see a primer listed in DsWright's post.

 

More tests are planned.  The brief initial test was with 9mm.

 

Guy

S&B primers.  its all i use, i buy as many as i can afford on black friday every year.

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I don't think there is anything wrong or bad with S&B primers, and I have no problems using them.  The lower price of the S&B primers (that I have seen) makes them attractive to use.

 

The tests I ran were small, so no generalization should be made at this point.  I was simply surprised at the difference seen while testing Win 244.  It was a larger difference than I am used to seeing.

 

Given the difference seen (again, note that this was 9mm Luger, not 45 Auto), it demonstrated the changes that can result from changing a component.  I did not expect a 135 fps difference with the same load and bullet.  The major change was the problem, but mixed cases, used in both tests, could have contributed.  The power factor with the CCI primers was 142, but only 126 with the S&B primers.

 

If someone has worked up the load with the S&B primers, there should be no problems, but care should be taken if the primers are changed.  This is a standard procedure, but over the years I have not seen this much difference.  It may not hold with large primers or other powders.  More testing is needed.

 

Guy

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Eliminate the variables one by one, if your load seems fine then check the brass.

 

Buy a box of factory ammo. Good stuff like Remington or Federal. Fire it through the gun you're testing. Use that once-fired brass for your next reloading test.

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I have used 231 and WST in the past. I prefer the softer recoil of WST


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Howdy-  Used a lot of 231 back when I shot .45 ACP in USPSA in Florida.  Was fortunate enough to get to go to the Nationals ( as an alternate in my club when someone better couldn't make it  ) in 1988 in Barry, Ill. Everyone was upping their charges for the trip, as 231 had a rep for running slow in the cold.  These days I like WST for .45 ACP, though got my best accuracy ever with a slight "overload"  that I will not post here.

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