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Talon75

Cast bullet leading

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Posted (edited)

First off let me say thanks to all who share info here, I have gained a lot of hard to come by knowledge in a short amount of time and I appreciate that.

 

Now to my issue. In my beginners haste to start loading some rounds the weekend I got my press I bought some SNS 125gr RN .356 lead cast bullets at a LGS(said they were coated, found out when I got home they weren't!!) . I also got some Titegroup because it seems to be the most popular USPSA powder, and I planned on running coated or plated rounds for limited minor. My 9mm RIA tactical has been getting some leading in a very short period of time, 50 rounds, it is not so bad as to affect anything like accuracy or function but I really don't like it at all. Since then I have got some extreme 147gr plated HP and been doing well with those, but still have about 400 of the SNS that I'd like to figure out. I slugged my barrel and got .3545, then measured the SNS bullets at .3550. I have also read somewhere that TG is not the best choice for non coated bullets, I now have some Vectan Ba9.5 but haven't done any loading with it yet. Would the 9.5 be a better choice for lead bullets? Is there a better powder choice than what I have? Are the bullets just not the right size for my barrel? 

 

Load data

SNS 125gr RN .356 Cast

3.6gr of titegroup

1.150 oal

 

Edited by Talon75

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It's just not worth tinkering to save 400 boolits. I don't think you can prevent the gas cutting without going to .357 or .358. I think you're going to lead the barrel regardless of powder choice. You can check to see if you're resizing the boolit accidentally by overly crimping. But it'll still be .356 & it'll lead anyways.

 

You can melt the wax off & de-grease the boolits in acetone & powder coat it.

 

If it was me, I would just keep everything the same; shoot 200 in a practice session, scrub out the barrel & shoot 200 in the next practice session.

 

I soak the barrel in a jar of Ed's red & scrub it out with a bronze bore brush wrapped with strands of copper chore boy.

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I may just have to heed that advice, just hate doing that to the gun. I use Lucas Oil bore solvent with good results so far, shot 25 rounds of them today and had to clean it, don't think I'll even mess with 200. I'll slug the barrell on some other guns and maybe eat them up on those. Thanks for the reply sir.

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Bullets might be a little small.

 

Your barrel seems small too.

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The bullets seem a little small to me given your bore size. 

I had leading when I started casting 9 mm. For me the leading happened at the throat and a slower powder like Longshot took care of it. 

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3 hours ago, zombywoof said:

 

 

Your barrel seems small too.

That's what I thought, checked it twice to make sure!! Seems fine with everything else I have every fed it though, so I'll just get some coated and roll with it, won't have to look around the smoke either. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Lagamor said:

The bullets seem a little small to me given your bore size. 

I had leading when I started casting 9 mm. For me the leading happened at the throat and a slower powder like Longshot took care of it. 

I'm getting it at both ends, so I'm really thinking bullet size, but may try something slower later on. I'm gonna try some other powders in hopes to find something cleaner than TG, I can't believe how dirty it is even with my plated loads, reminds me of shooting Blazer Brass.

Edited by Talon75

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It sounds like they are “skidding” down the barrel with some blow by going on. If your into casting you can melt them down. If not you can powder coat them it’s cheap. but all that cost money. 

If you have time on your hands you can paper patch, it’s basically free and kinda cool. But it’s usually done for old rifle rounds. 

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Thanks for the ideas. I went ahead and loaded them with 3.2gr of the 9.5 I have, ran 50 rounds, still leading but not near as bad, guess I'll just shoot them a bit here and there. 

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I have a number of 9mms, some lead with cast bullets, some don't.  With the ones that lead, I will end a stage with jacketed bullets loaded in my last magazine.  That seems to get the worst of the leading out.  Same for the end of a shooting session. YMMV.

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Try running something like Precision 125 gr coated in .358 diameter.  With lead bullets you really need to have them .002 or .003 over bore size to have them obturate well.

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Posted (edited)

I have only had leading when of the following three mistakes were made.  I have done all three of these at some point while learning.    If I had batch that leaded I shot a few full metal jacket rounds at the bottom of each magazine and the leading was shot out.  Glad someone gave me that tip.

 

1) undersized bullets-these will lead without anyway I know of to avoid it

 

2) too much crimp-it can be caused this by simply crimping too much and by swagging a softer lead bullet with a lee factory crimp die.  I like using lee factory crimp dies but this is something to be aware of

 

3) not enough bell on the case-this causes the bullet to get shaved to some extent causing an undersized bullet

 

I’m sure there are other way I have yet to encounter to cause leading but have not found them yet

Edited by Mushki25

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Posted (edited)

More good info, thanks guys. I had to load them for a match this weekend, my 147 coated bullets did not arrive when they were supposed to, and found out how well fmj's clean the lead out. Really liking the Vectan 9.5, cleaner and less smoke with the cast bullets than TG, meters well enough on my LM but does leak a few pebbles out over 300 rds I've loaded so far.

Edited by Talon75

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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2018 at 10:34 AM, Steve RA said:

Try running something like Precision 125 gr coated in .358 diameter.  With lead bullets you really need to have them .002 or .003 over bore size to have them obturate well.

Would coated need to be oversized that much? I have some coated 147gr .356 and .357 coming, plan to test accuracy between the two sizes(I need all the accuracy help I can get!!)

Edited by Talon75

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I cast and buy coated bullets. I shoot a CZ with a bore that measures .355. I use ACME 147 grain flat point HI TEK coated sized .356 and measure .356. I also, cast a similar bullet style and HI TEK coat them and size them .357. Neither bullet leads as long as I have a proper bell on the case mouth when seating the bullet and I don't over crimp. My round count through the CZ is now a tad over 12,000 rounds. All of them except maybe 500 are HI TEK coated bullets. The 500 that are not coated are plated and jacketed bullets when I was doing load development when the gun was new.

 

Some food for thought. My own cast bullets are sized .357; they do shoot a tad better in accuracy then the ACME's. However, the ACME bullet shoot almost as good and I use ACME without hesitation if I Don't have time to cast when I am running low on my cast bullets. 

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Posted (edited)

I run 124 TC Bayous at .356" on top of 3.4 grs TG at 1.100", makes a 128 PF, with no leading. .357"s work also. But the biggest reason to run coated is they are 99% as accurate as FMJs at half the cost and your blood lead won't go up (mine got to 28 running moly lead at 6 matches a month). Shooting Bayous it dropped to 6. 

 

The easy way to get lead out is the old Bullseye shooters recipe of 50/50 hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar. Fizz away for about 5 minutes and pour it out. Won't touch SS, but use caution on chrome lined barrels. Chrome is porous and will  pit easily.

 

before lead cocktail

 

image36199.jpg

 

 

after the lead cocktail

 

image36203.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 9x45

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I use the .358 Precision in a Kart barrel and get the best accuracy with that combination I've been able to get with a 9mm.  I've never been able to do as well with a 9mm as I have with a .45 APC.

 

I did have the barrel throated after I purchased it and can load longer.  The barrel seemed to have an unusually short throat although the chamber length was spot on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 10:42 PM, edison said:

It's just not worth tinkering to save 400 boolits

This. Sell or trade them for something else more useful.

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Well for me it was worth it, trying a a new powder at various weights. I'm very new to this so trying out other stuff is necessary to the learning curve. Now I'm almost out of bullets!! 

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