GrayR Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Hey guys. I meant to post on here but completely forgot until just now. Several months ago I shot a local club match and did about how I would expect myself too. I forgot about a target that was hiding behind some barrels which didn’t surprise me cause my heart rate still skyrockets with the buzzer every time. But the guy running the timer gave me two FTE and two mikes for not engaging the target. I didn’t realize you got both. Was that a mistake or is that actually how it goes? Thanks in advance for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 target = 1 FTE 2 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 minute ago, GrayR said: Hey guys. I meant to post on here but completely forgot until just now. Several months ago I shot a local club match and did about how I would expect myself too. I forgot about a target that was hiding behind some barrels which didn’t surprise me cause my heart rate still skyrockets with the buzzer every time. But the guy running the timer gave me two FTE and two mikes for not engaging the target. I didn’t realize you got both. Was that a mistake or is that actually how it goes? Thanks in advance for your help! Yup, that's what ya get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Well hell. I’m not entirely sure how you can get penalized for not shooting a target and also penalized for shooting and missing but I suppose I don’t have to understand to get docked the points. Guess I better learn to find those cardboard devils pretty quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, GrayR said: Well hell. I’m not entirely sure how you can get penalized for not shooting a target and also penalized for shooting and missing but I suppose I don’t have to understand to get docked the points. Guess I better learn to find those cardboard devils pretty quick! You get a procedural penalty per 10.2.7. Then, when the targets are scored, there are zero hits on the target you skipped. So, you get -10 for the procedural, -20 for the two mikes and you didn't get any scoring points. If they would of been "A" hits, you dumped 40 points...(assuming a 2 hit target). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 as noted above, ONE FTE (per target) and two mikes (for each of the two required hits that aren't showing on the target). not two of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Oh yes sir I believe ya It just doesn’t mke sense to me. and it clearly doesn’t matter it was my third match ever so there’s plenty more mistakes coming I was just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 meant to dissuade some super fast guys from intentionally ignoring a target that may be out of the way. uspsa scoring is points per second (hit factor) and occasionally you'll see some guys that have misses, hit no shoots, or the like and still win that stage or match or at least place high because they are blazing fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yeah I can see how the fast ones might avoid a little nook that’s slow getting into for one long target or somethin. Not a problem for sure I have fun no matter how slow I go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Most of those targets are there to get one to move to another part of the shooting area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6477 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It's the same logic as getting penalized on Virginia stages for extra shots (taken at the line) and extra hits (scored on the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 hours ago, GrayR said: Well hell. I’m not entirely sure how you can get penalized for not shooting a target and also penalized for shooting and missing but I suppose I don’t have to understand to get docked the points. Guess I better learn to find those cardboard devils pretty quick! You can think of penalties like this. Some things are penalized for shooter actions, like stepping over a fault line, failing to perform a mandatory reload, skipping a target, or firing too many shots (in a Virginia count stage). Other things are penalized at the target, like hits on no shoots, too many shots on a target (again, in Virginia count), and misses on a target (which are assessed regardless of whether or not the target was engaged). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yeah that all makes sense. If I sounded whiny i apologize. Let me be clear I don’t care one bit about my uspsa scores. Pulling the trigger is fun and that’s why I do it because it’s a fun game. That’s what I tell the people I shoot with when stage breakdown gets tedious I say guys we could all only hit no shoots and we’re still gonna go and have lunch just like if we’d won this thing. So I’m not griping about my penalties I was just curious if I could expect that or argue it the next time I leave one out. I appreciate all you guys taking the time to explain it to me it helps breaking it down into penalties at the shooter and then penalties st the target. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 The tough targets for scoring are those that are available with others in the same general area. Did the shooter forget about the target so that it is a FTE, or did they shoot at it but miss it entirely? The first is a FTE and two MIKE, the second is just two MIKE. That decision/ argument can make a major change in total points scored for the stage. Some are not too bad because of the direction needed to index on the target. Some are a pain because if they came around a wall too quick they might miss the first target but see the remaining targets. Now the RO has to decide if it is a FTE or just 2 Mikes because they did engage the other targets in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yeah it’s definitely subjective in a lot of situations. I certainly don’t want to give up points but I’m in the whatever gets us to the next shooter quicker mindset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 It's not subjective at all. If you go by a target you get a FTE, 2 mikes and 10 points down for 2 alphas you could have earned. If you engaged it and missed, that's just 2 mikes. You need to get allot more matches under your belt, and read the rules, and don't try to justify the rules on your behalf. They are just the rules of the game. If you want to be a faster shooter, then take lessons from a GM/M and get with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You mentioned that you don't understand why you get an FTE and the miss penalties. #1 that is the rule. No further explanation required. #2 If you could just skip a target (without penalty) you might find that gives a better score than actually shooting it. That's why its a rule. I agree with the above poster. It is not subjective. The RO knows what you're intending to shoot and how many shots you have fired. If he is not certain that you failed to fire at least one shot at the target you will not get the FTE. I understand you are new to this and crap happens even when you're not new. I'm glad you're having fun with it and I'm glad you're participating. However don't let the fun go to your head. This is a competitive sport and you will not continue it unless you are determined to kick everybody's ass. Like me you might never be able to do that but I still keep trying. The fun of it is not social, its competition. Edited April 1, 2018 by Brooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I was agreeing with the last post above mine that the order a shooter goes through the stage can be interpreted in different ways and that’s what makes it tough for the RO to be sure that the individual engaged a target. Not that the rules are subject to arguing. And I never justified the rules to my behalf either I just didn’t understand it so I asked. I keep reiterating that I don’t care, that I accepted the penalties and that I was just curious. Thanks again for all the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 First off this isn’t a lecture, this isn’t me slamming you, this is honestly a good idea. Read and learn the rules, specifically the scoring. I know you said you don’t care about your scores because you’re just having fun, but clearly you do, because you came on here asking if the scoring you received was correct. It wasn’t. You got screwed. You don’t get two FTEs for not shooting at ONE target. The reason i say to learn the rules, is for this exact situation. When this happened, your response to the score keeper should have been “please show me the rule that states i get two FTE for not shooting at one target”. If he/she can’t show you the rule, they have no leg to stand on to issue you that penalty. Even if you don’t know the rules, you can always make that request, however, if mob rule wins and you have a bunch of people that all don’t know the rules and they all agree with the scorekeeper, you’re still going to get screwed. It’s awesome to shoot for the joy of shooting and not worrying about scores, but you should still get what you earned. While you may not care about your scores, he is going to do try and do that to a shooter that does care about his scores. Either way, the scorekeeper needs schooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Wow, I totally missed that the OP said "two FTEs". Only one. Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayR Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I’m apparently phrasing pretty poorly. When I say I don’t care about points I should have said I don’t care about my performance. I agree that he should give people the correct calls but I don’t expect to score very high. I appreciate the point of view of straightening out the scorekeeper though you’re very right and I’ll work on being able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckinMS Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 It is a game and yes you are going to eat lunch afterward no matter the results, but you should still care about your performance. Especially if you carry throughout your day to day life......you will want to hit all your intended targets and what you practice will and does carry over when the crap hits the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, StuckinMS said: It is a game and yes you are going to eat lunch afterward no matter the results, but you should still care about your performance. Especially if you carry throughout your day to day life......you will want to hit all your intended targets and what you practice will and does carry over when the crap hits the fan. yep half the reason i compete/play in uspsa, 3 gun, etc is it is super fun, the other half is to improve proficiency with the firearms my life may depend on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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