Trigger Control

[DKorn]

16 minutes ago, Ghorsley said:

I read a lot of posts on trigger control because apparently I’m not too good at it. Specifically trigger control drills.

Would someone please clarify how it’s possible to rapid fire when you are dry firing. The gun won’t go into battery without a half rack of the slide, so how are you able to simulate rapid fire? What am I missing.

 

thanks a lot

 

My trigger (Walther PPQ) moves even when I cocked, so I pull the trigger through its full travel for each “shot” in dry fire. It isn’t as heavy as the real trigger pull, so I make sure I’m applying enough force and also going through the full travel. 

 

What kind of gun are you using?

Edited June 2, 2018 by DKorn

[DKorn]

3 minutes ago, Ghorsley said:

• What about reset? Is that not an important part of dry firing practice 

 

I don’t worry about reset ever. In dry or live fire. As long as I’m letting the trigger out far enough to reset, I don’t care about “feeling” or “riding” the reset. 

 

In Ben’s book (I think it was Ben’s. It might’ve been Steve’s), he uses the following analogy:

If I asked you to tap a table with your index finger as fast as possible, which would be faster? Trying to keep your finger as close to the table as possible, or lifting your finger off the table, not worrying about how high off it goes, and then tapping the table again?

 

[Ghorsley]

HK VP9 SK

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Posted 17 minutes ago

Ghorsley,

Ben recommends pulling on the dead trigger twice as hard you think you need to.

 

 

What about reset? Is that not an important part of dry firing practice 

[MixLord]

I have been training all year to join USPSA and a club to shoot matches next year.. So I dry fire daily for at least 1 hour on draw and present to tagert and engage.. and 1 hour of transitions at night.. once I started timing myself on transitions I realized I needed to work on alot more than pulling the trigger and not moving gun.. Just being able to transition from indexing to trigger without moving gun.. so That's for me a part of training that can be done without having to reset trigger after first pull.. I see benifits of both.. I feel stupid for even saying anything amongst such amazing talent..

[ClangClang]

In dryfire, on the draw you press the trigger so that the hammer falls/striker fires and then you continue the drill with a "dead" trigger which does not move.  The trigger's movement is less important than you think. Your finger is much more important. Dryfire is primarily about training your trigger to move fast and your eyes to be able to instantly gain a sight picture with every movement.

 

@MixLord You are clearly ready to shoot a match. USPSA doesn't require a year of training before you can begin.... just show up. If you can handle a gun safely, you're ready to start.  And I would also wonder if even your dryfire is COUNTER-productive being that you may not understand yet exactly what to train for or how to dryfire.

 

[MixLord]

Great point..I have been fortunate to get mentoring from some great family members who most the old shooters prolly know anyways.. So im generalizing.. but definitely preparing for that chapter in my life so I can commit 110% when I hear that buzz for the first time .. plus, I need to build a gun room still. ( want* )

[B585]

Obviously, I am no expert, but most say just barely lift your finger off the trigger if you are practicing rapid fire.  As far drills go, watch the sights every time you pull the trigger.  Ben mentioned aiming at nothing with a white wall just to see how much they move.

[GunBugBit]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:49 AM, Doublehelix said:

Try it before you respond. Get about 10 feet away from a white wall, and focus on the front sight and rapid fire (make sure the gun is unloaded and safe! Double check! Triple check!).

IMHO, it's not critical to completely eliminate sight movement during the trigger press, just to keep it minimal.  If the support hand is doing its job and the overall two-handed grip situation is good, your trigger press could be slappy and you could have good accuracy at your faster shooting speeds.  The fact that many USPSA shooters intentionally let off the trigger quickly after breaking the shot, and then rapidly press it again, has been cast as "slapping" by some bullseye-oriented observers, but good fast action shooters apply this technique in an intentional, competent way and their scores back up its effectiveness.

 

For me, doing this basic exercise a lot with weak-hand-only (WHO) in dry fire is pretty valuable.  It's more of a challenge to keep the sights still during trigger presses in WHO.  I do better in matches when I've been doing plenty of WHO dry fire work, even if the match contains no stages with WHO shooting.  Maybe it's because I was doing plenty of dry fire of other kinds, and just knowing I had put in the WHO work gave me added confidence.

[CrashDodson]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:10 PM, Ghorsley said:

I read a lot of posts on trigger control because apparently I’m not too good at it. Specifically trigger control drills.

Would someone please clarify how it’s possible to rapid fire when you are dry firing. The gun won’t go into battery without a half rack of the slide, so how are you able to simulate rapid fire? What am I missing.

 

thanks a lot

 

You just work the trigger as hard as you can.  I dry fire with a 2011 so I get to drop the hammer once and then work a "dead" trigger just like I would a live trigger.  In a match under pressure at 10 yards and in you are going to be working the trigger hard if your trying to shoot with any speed.  So we do the same thing in dry fire.   

 

I also do trigger control work at simulated distances, as far as I can in my house, where you will be more precise with the trigger just like you would in live fire.  

[CrashDodson]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:17 PM, Ghorsley said:

 

 

What about reset? Is that not an important part of dry firing practice 

 

You should be coming off the trigger fast.  No pin and reset crap.  I come off the trigger as fast as I get on the trigger.  When shooting 10 yards and in your gripping the piss out of the gun and working that trigger hard.  You practice the same thing in dry fire.  

 

If you where dry firing harder targets then you wouldn't be coming back on the trigger as hard/fast as you do when shooting quickly but you still need to be coming off the trigger fast to get setup for that next shot.  When trying to shoot accurately at distance or a hard target how you come back on the trigger is as important as pulling it straight back.  In live fire working a plate rack is excellent practice for this.  

[MixLord]

What a treasure trove of information.. Most epic post ever.. just following this post I am improving!! 

The biggest thing for me is.. only pulling the trigger enough to fire.. and not pinning it all the way back..then I can reset/pull smoother.. this week is all about that.

[CrashDodson]

3 hours ago, MixLord said:

What a treasure trove of information.. Most epic post ever.. just following this post I am improving!! 

The biggest thing for me is.. only pulling the trigger enough to fire.. and not pinning it all the way back..then I can reset/pull smoother.. this week is all about that.

 

Just to clarify.  When I am dry firing I smash the trigger as far back as it will go.  Shooting live, some newer shooters hold that back as the gun returns from recoil, they reset the trigger as they are over aiming for the next shot and repeat.  Which is painfully slow.  If your hearing the audible reset of your trigger, depending on what gun your using, your likely not working the trigger fast enough.  The trigger should be reset and prepped as the gun is returning from the previous shot, ready to fire as soon as your vision tells you its good to go. 

 

Come off the trigger fast, come back on the trigger fast to that 80%-90% point so you are ready to fire as soon as possible.  This is for more difficult shots, for shots on open targets 10 yards and in I am smashing the hell out of the trigger on every shot.  Your grip makes up for the violence with your booger hook.    

[IHAVEGAS]

3 hours ago, MixLord said:

 

The biggest thing for me is.. only pulling the trigger enough to fire.. and not pinning it all the way back..then I can reset/pull smoother.. this week is all about that.

 

Not sure what kind of gun you have, on my guns the amount of over travel is too little to matter. I suspect that there is a trigger kit available that would make this a non-issue for yours unless you prefer to stay stock and fix it through training. 

[MixLord]

3 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Not sure what kind of gun you have, on my guns the amount of over travel is too little to matter. I suspect that there is a trigger kit available that would make this a non-issue for yours unless you prefer to stay stock and fix it through training. 

Going to be shooting production Glock.. I still have stock trigger.. soon as I can remember the rules, I will use them to my fullest advantage..  

So many amazing people helping in this post.. I love this community!

[MixLord]

4 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

 

Just to clarify.  When I am dry firing I smash the trigger as far back as it will go.  Shooting live, some newer shooters hold that back as the gun returns from recoil, they reset the trigger as they are over aiming for the next shot and repeat.  Which is painfully slow.  If your hearing the audible reset of your trigger, depending on what gun your using, your likely not working the trigger fast enough.  The trigger should be reset and prepped as the gun is returning from the previous shot, ready to fire as soon as your vision tells you its good to go. 

 

Come off the trigger fast, come back on the trigger fast to that 80%-90% point so you are ready to fire as soon as possible.  This is for more difficult shots, for shots on open targets 10 yards and in I am smashing the hell out of the trigger on every shot.  Your grip makes up for the violence with your booger hook.    

Thank you for all your clarity and sharing the stuff that took you years to learn.. you're mentoring is appreciated.. I think speak for all the noobs, Thank You!

[Blackstone45]

13 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

 

Just to clarify.  When I am dry firing I smash the trigger as far back as it will go.  Shooting live, some newer shooters hold that back as the gun returns from recoil, they reset the trigger as they are over aiming for the next shot and repeat.  Which is painfully slow.  If your hearing the audible reset of your trigger, depending on what gun your using, your likely not working the trigger fast enough.  The trigger should be reset and prepped as the gun is returning from the previous shot, ready to fire as soon as your vision tells you its good to go. 

 

Come off the trigger fast, come back on the trigger fast to that 80%-90% point so you are ready to fire as soon as possible.  This is for more difficult shots, for shots on open targets 10 yards and in I am smashing the hell out of the trigger on every shot.  Your grip makes up for the violence with your booger hook.    

Would you ever say you are "slapping" the trigger?

[tanks]

19 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

 

...Come off the trigger fast, come back on the trigger fast to that 80%-90% point so you are ready to fire as soon as possible.  This is for more difficult shots, for shots on open targets 10 yards and in I am smashing the hell out of the trigger on every shot.  Your grip makes up for the violence with your booger hook.    

 

That has been suggested to me for faster transitions that by the time the gun is approaching  the A zone on the next target the trigger is pressed 80%. On a 1.2lbs trigger I have it down at 100% . I am at the point of getting all the slack out and putting some pressure on the trigger but nowhere near 80% at this point.

[CrashDodson]

6 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

Would you ever say you are "slapping" the trigger?

I would imagine you can call it that.  Working the trigger as fast as my little finger will go.  

 

My finger does come off the trigger face during the "reset" when shooting fast, so you could consider that slapping.

Edited June 6, 2018 by CrashDodson

[CrashDodson]

16 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

That has been suggested to me for faster transitions that by the time the gun is approaching  the A zone on the next target the trigger is pressed 80%. On a 1.2lbs trigger I have it down at 100% . I am at the point of getting all the slack out and putting some pressure on the trigger but nowhere near 80% at this point.

On a 1.2lb trigger taking out the slack and bumping up against that wall should be good enough. 

[Blackstone45]

18 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

I would imagine you can call it that.  Working the trigger as fast as my little finger will go.  

 

My finger does come off the trigger face during the "reset" when shooting fast, so you could consider that slapping.

Yeah that sounds like slapping the trigger, thanks for the response