Real RNDs / Hour Reloading

[rhett45acp]

Hi,

 

I want to measure my own figures against the community.   I will use my current 650 Dillon setup for 9mm 124 gr as a reference.  I have Mr. Bullet Feeder and case feeder.  A few other minor upgrades.   I have more primer tubes than I know. 

 

So, what is the real time involved in loading X amount of rounds? 

 

Given = plenty of brass cleaned and stored in a bin.   Let's start the loading process.

 

Grab plastic container, use a 50 hole brick* to inspect brass and place in container.  I do this for about 600 rounds.  Spray with one shot.  Close container and shake rattle and roll. 

 

Load 6 primer tubes of Winchester primers.  By then the One Shot is dry.  Dump about 200 cases in the feeder and 100+ bullets in the feeder.

 

Top off powder and fill primer magazine on press.

 

Load ~100 rounds, rinse and repeat.  (topping off brass, bullets, powder and primers).

 

In ~500 round "one hour" session I have maybe 10 stoppages due to various reasons like flipped case or primer stuck in case.

 

My reality is with the 650, Case and Bullet Feeder,  I am happy to turn out ~500 an hour.  Granted I may be a little slower or deliberate than others.  This too me is a Start to Finish measurement. 

 

Not in this process is the brass cleaning.  When I load 40 S&W the extra time for X Die processing is another factor.   For all the EGW/Lee 40 die fans,    I get it.  Personally, since I went to the X die, I no longer case gauge 40.   Just my preference. 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by rhett45acp
removed extra word

[RickT]

I can run my 1050 with Mark 7 at either 1800 or 2100 rounds/hour.  I've mastered refilling the primer tube on the fly, but the limiting factor assuming all the supplies are ready in quantity is bullet seating.  Using mixed brass I can get a case that simply doesn't hold the bullet well; best case is the bullet sensor catches this; worst case the bullet tips over after the down stroke as started and the press stops. 

 

I haven't had a primer stoppage in at least 10K rounds, probably many more than that.  I have had the press chop up a bullet and have a piece of lead jam in the seating die.  I've only had two ringers detected in at least 20K rounds, but it's still a nice feature.  

 

So, what's my average?  I'm sure with the powder die adjusted just right for the bullet I'm loading I'd hit 1500, but the real throughput needs to take into account all the other processing, even picking up brass at the range.

[rhett45acp]

The input brass is a very good point and a wild card.   I happen to have a supply of brass that is cleaned and ready to go when I receive.  Side note: almost all matches I shoot now are lost brass.  So only recover during practice. 

 

To clarify about the primer.  I have had ZERO issues with priming on the 650.   What does happen is usually with some "WC" cases and nickle primers just not decapping.  I toss them quickly and move on.  Also the occasional berdan that escapes my pre inspection.  I have seen more lately and don't get me going on stepped brass. 

 

I too get the occasional bullet tipped over.

 

I frankly have the fully automated press on my mind.   Just trying to wrap my mind around the cost/effort ration.  I am glad you gave an honest 1500.

 

[Overscore]

It's always interesting to learn about other people's processes.  Mine's a little different.

 

 

I use a 650 and attempt to do my 9mm in batches of 1000.  Sometimes that's a little bit of a stretch, depending on how late I start in the evening.  But, I can typically get 1000 loaded before I finish three beers, so figure about 2 hours.  My 9mm is already decapped, because I do that separately prior to my wet tumble.  I'll typically wait until I have about 10,000 9mm before decapping over the span of a month or so, since it's so monotonous.

 

My big picture process:

• Collect as much brass as possible before winter comes.
• Prior to winter, before it gets cold in PA, take a few weeks where I'll spend a night or two a week sitting in my garage drinking beer, listening to Taylor Swift (prior to her #MarchForOurLives nonsense), chain smoking cigarettes (even though I don't really smoke), sorting brass until 2am.
• Rinse tumble brass and dry it in a food dehydrator over the next week or three
• Put my XL650 into decapping mode (a tool head with only a universal decapping die).  As the rinsed dry brass comes in, decap it.  Continue this until all brass is decapped.
• Wet tumble decapped brass in a vinegar/isopropyl/lemon juice mix to make it nice and shiny
• If it's 9mm, I'll take it from this state and load it in a normal process.  I'll typically try to do 1,000 in a sitting, simply because I have 10 small primer pickup tubes, and the CCI primers come in boxes of 1,000.  But, I don't always do 1,000 at once.  I'll sometimes reload ammo during meetings when I'm working from home, crank out a few rounds while I'm waiting 6 hours for my kids to find their shoes, stuff like that.  The most I ever did in one sitting was 1600, and that was too ridiculous on an XL650.
• If it's rifle, that's a different sub-process:
  • Resize on a single stage press
  • Wet tumble again to remove case lube
  • Swage (in bulk)
  • Trim (in bulk)
  • Chamfer/Debur (in bulk)
  • Wet tumble
  • Load on XL650

I like to do one step at a time and do that in bulk, as opposed to performing every step on a case at once.  I use little checklists in the containers where I store the brass to keep track of where in the process it is (for rifle).

 

My goal is to spend the whole winter loading ammo so that I have enough until the next winter.  This allows me to not be enslaved indoors to my press when it's nice out, or it frees up my press for me to learn new loads during shooting season.

 

[xdr]

22 hours ago, rhett45acp said:

Using a similar flow as yours except for 223 I can get about 300 Rnds per hour. Sometimes a bit more. I just addded a Mr BF and it certainly helps so may get up to 400/hr now. Time will tell. 

 

I want to measure my own figures against the community.   I will use my current 650 Dillon setup for 9mm 124 gr as a reference.  I have Mr. Bullet Feeder and case feeder.  A few other minor upgrades.   I have more primer tubes than I know. 

 

So, what is the real time involved in loading X amount of rounds? 

 

Given = plenty of brass cleaned and stored in a bin.   Let's start the loading process.

 

Grab plastic container, use a 50 hole brick* to inspect brass and place in container.  I do this for about 600 rounds.  Spray with one shot.  Close container and shake rattle and roll. 

 

Load 6 primer tubes of Winchester primers.  By then the One Shot is dry.  Dump about 200 cases in the feeder and 100+ bullets in the feeder.

 

Top off powder and fill primer magazine on press.

 

Load ~100 rounds, rinse and repeat.  (topping off brass, bullets, powder and primers).

 

In ~500 round "one hour" session I have maybe 10 stoppages due to various reasons like flipped case or primer stuck in case.

 

My reality is with the 650, Case and Bullet Feeder,  I am happy to turn out ~500 an hour.  Granted I may be a little slower or deliberate than others.  This too me is a Start to Finish measurement. 

 

Not in this process is the brass cleaning.  When I load 40 S&W the extra time for X Die processing is another factor.   For all the EGW/Lee 40 die fans,    I get it.  Personally, since I went to the X die, I no longer case gauge 40.   Just my preference. 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Powerstrokedit]

With primer tubes full,and everything topped off i could do 1k an hour on my 650.boxed up in 100s and case checked. No bullet feeder or drive motor.I found a cheap tool from Franklin Armory to fill primer tubes for 50 someodd bucks and with a little practice I could fill 15 of them pretty fast.I have modified my spent primer system to a plastic hose and a bucket.It all got boxed up for a move.I hope to get back in the saddle soon.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Powerstrokedit

[clw42]

With brass processed and simply filling the bullet feeder, case feeder, and primer tubes, I can do ~1,200 9mm minor in an 58:27 at a steady pace with two stoppages (both primer related). 9mm major is a little slower and I haven't time checked it yet, but based on feel, I'd say somewhere between 700-800/hour. With major, I'm moving the ram a little slower so I avoid powder spillage.

I typically load up 4 primer tubes, use them up, then load another 4. I use that as a little break in the process. I don't mind the hunt and peck as much as some folks and it really doesn't take that long.

[clw42]

With brass processed and simply filling the bullet feeder, case feeder, and primer tubes, I can do ~1,200 9mm minor in an 58:27 at a steady pace with two stoppages (both primer related). 9mm major is a little slower and I haven't time checked it yet, but based on feel, I'd say somewhere between 700-800/hour. With major, I'm moving the ram a little slower so I avoid powder spillage.

I typically load up 4 primer tubes, use them up, then load another 4. I use that as a little break in the process. I don't mind the hunt and peck as much as some folks and it really doesn't take that long.

[rustychev]

 650 with brass with bullet feeder  pre cleaned and rf100 I can do about 1100 per hour.

[mrpredictable]

I’m in the 500-600 rd’s/hour range, setup is 650 w/ case and bullet feeder. I use the FA primer filler and have probably 1 stoppage per hundred but hopefully have some things figured out and foresee my rate being 700rph or so. 

[Blockader]

I use a Square Deal B that I bought 20 years ago in high school when I worked at a gun store.

 

When components became affordable again and I dusted it off to get back cranking, I assumed I'd want to upgrade after a little while, but since it was basically free I'd use it for a bit. 

 

As it turns out, with my daughter sticking cases in while I pop on bullets, we can do about 500 rnds/hour. My son is younger and slower, but we are working on improving his transitions and time to first case. 

 

Anyhow, I reckon I'm like my Dad, who bought a log splitter and riding mower when I moved out. 

[cjmill87]

I've been wondering something like this myself (Rnds per hour output) in looking at a 650 vs. 1050 as many of the discussions on here are about.  If one is say only processing and loading 9mm, is there a true output difference between a 1050 and a 650 (assuming both have case feeders and bullet feeders)?

[Flatland Shooter]

On 1/11/2019 at 5:39 AM, Blockader said:

 

Anyhow, I reckon I'm like my Dad, who bought a log splitter and riding mower when I moved out. 

 

The 550 I got back in the mid-80's is plenty fast for me.  Good for 400 - 500 rds per hour.

 

In my case, I come home at Christmas break my freshman year and found a chainsaw, riding mower in the barn and a color tv in the house.

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

I load 200 rounds / hour on my SDB, which is fast enough for me since I'm retired

 

But, thinking of upgrading to the 1050 for the priming system and being able to seat

primers on the down stroke (my arthritis acts up it I seat too many primers in one

sitting).

[rowdyb]

Walking out into the garage with nothing ready other than having clean brass in a bucket, then I:

• dump 4 to 6 handfuls of brass in a gallon ziplock and spray one shot in it and then close it and shake it all up and then let it rest while I
• grab 600 primers and 5 tubes. i start the process of using a flip tray and loading them up. the first one filled gets dumped in the machine (a 1050) and then filled again, why I only need 5 tubes.
• after the primer tubes are loaded i do a quick visual inspection, wipe down, blow or compressed air, cycle it a few times empty. just check on things and look at it all.
• i turn on the case feeder and when it stops with filling up the tube with the brass that had been in it i dump in the newly lubed brass
• i throw a few handfuls of bullets into the case feeder.
• I then work the handle making the first 300 rounds. when they are done i case gauge them and call what passes match ammo. i go back to making the remaining 300.
• i don't case gauge the last set of 300 as they and the rejects from earlier all go in a ammo can for practice.

This whole process, going at a comfortable pace is my hour. Just 600 rounds, but starting from zero and case gauging half of them. If one only counted "handle time" then I can easily make 1,000 rounds in an hour. But I like to count the moment I walk into the garage until I leave it as the true time.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

 

• i turn on the case feeder and dump in the newly lubed brass
• i throw a few handfuls of bullets into the case feeder.

 

Probably dropping the bullets into the bullet feeder, I hope ?     

 

Thinking of getting a 1050, but I don't see how the case feeder will speed things up ?

On my SDB, doing 200 rounds/hour as Rowdy does - from scratch to finish - I get to 

visually check each and every piece of brass to make sure it's not a .380, .38 Super 

or .40.   If I use a case feeder, how do I prevent wrong caliber brass from gumming

up the works ?

[Steve RA]

As one option, you could sort it prior to loading.    

[Hi-Power Jack]

27 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

As one option, you could sort it prior to loading.    

 

Yeah, sure, BUT doesn't that eliminate all the advantage of

extra speed  by using a case feeder ?

 

If I spend an hour sorting brass, I guess I can then load

Very Fast on my new 1050, but if I'm going to inspect/

sort the brass by hand, anyway, what's the advantage

of the case feeder ?   (Not being a wise guy here, just

seriously wondering why have a case feeder ?) 

[Steve RA]

I don't know how you clean your brass, for me, I go shoot, scrounge all the brass I can pick up, go home and deprime all of it, that is when I sort.  Then clean all of it - by caliber - when I accumulate enough for a load in the wet tumbler.  I only keep the brass I use  - 9mm Win, .45 SP Federal and .223/5.56 LC - and sell all the rest. Next step then I hand prime while watching TV.  So when I get to loading I know exactly what I'm putting in the case feeder.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Steve RA
restructure sentence

[cjmill87]

I check and pre-sort all of my brass and then clean it.  While that does take more time on the "front-end", then I can be 100% sure that I've eliminated any potential problems related to wrong caliber or questionable headstamp brass.  That makes the loading then go much faster when you don't have to worry about the brass and can focus your attention on monitoring the powder station. 

 

IMO the advantage of the case feeder is again allowing you to focus on other (more important?) parts of the loading process and doing it (loading brass into the press) faster/more efficiently than by hand alone.

Edited January 15, 2019 by cjmill87

[Hi-Power Jack]

39 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

 deprime it & sort.  Then clean it by caliber -   then I hand prime while watching TV.  So when I get to loading I know exactly what I'm putting in the case feeder.

 

You deprime and hand prime 9mm cases ?   Never heard of it …  WHY ???

[Hi-Power Jack]

40 minutes ago, cjmill87 said:

I check and pre-sort brass and then clean it.  That makes the loading go much faster when you don't have to worry about the brass and can focus your attention on monitoring the powder station. 

 

That makes a little more sense than Steve's response, but if I did that I'd clean brass and Then check it

so it was clean when I was working with it.  

 

By "powder station", I presume you mean checking to ensure there is powder in the brass before

you load the bullet into the case ?

 

I guess it makes some sense to me, but seems like you're NOT saving any time due to all the handling

time before you start the loading process - presorting all that brass takes a lot of time.

 

But, thanks for the explanation.     

[Mcfoto]

9 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

You deprime and hand prime 9mm cases ?   Never heard of it …  WHY ???

 

I hand prime my revolver loads. An action-tuned wheelie can be real finicky on primer seating. Now my Striker-fired Limited gun is happy with any primer in the vicinity.

[Blockader]

3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Walking out into the garage with nothing ready other than having clean brass in a bucket, then I:

• dump 4 to 6 handfuls of brass in a gallon ziplock and spray one shot in it and then close it and shake it all up and then let it rest while I
• grab 600 primers and 5 tubes. i start the process of using a flip tray and loading them up. the first one filled gets dumped in the machine (a 1050) and then filled again, why I only need 5 tubes.
• after the primer tubes are loaded i do a quick visual inspection, wipe down, blow or compressed air, cycle it a few times empty. just check on things and look at it all.
• i turn on the case feeder and when it stops with filling up the tube with the brass that had been in it i dump in the newly lubed brass
• i throw a few handfuls of bullets into the case feeder.
• I then work the handle making the first 300 rounds. when they are done i case gauge them and call what passes match ammo. i go back to making the remaining 300.
• i don't case gauge the last set of 300 as they and the rejects from earlier all go in a ammo can for practice.

This whole process, going at a comfortable pace is my hour. Just 600 rounds, but starting from zero and case gauging half of them. If one only counted "handle time" then I can easily make 1,000 rounds in an hour. But I like to count the moment I walk into the garage until I leave it as the true time.

 

Thats a wise and realistic way to evaluate your work rate. Its easy to focus on how many rounds you can crank out in an hour booking it, but factor in all the ancillary tasks associated and the real picture is quite different. Likewise when figuring cost per round. Its easy to add the money spent on primers, powder, bullets, and cases and feel pretty good about the result, but add in all the other costs and you get a very different and more realistic picture. Especially since there is always something else you need! Got a nice press, time for a chrono! Now you know how fast your rounds are going, better get a shock bottle! And so on forever. 

 

Whatever the metrics, its the enjoyment of the work and the process and the result that are most important to us, I believe. 

[ajblack]

4 hours ago, rowdyb said:

But I like to count the moment I walk into the garage until I leave it as the true time.

I'm the same way except for loading primer tubes.  Some day I'll pick up a Vibra-Prime but until then I just load primer tubes in front the TV whenever I think of it.  Primer tubes are cheap enough that I just have a ton of them and load more tubes than I need for a single reloading session (usually 1000 rounds per session on a 650).