In a bind

[bwikel]

6 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

if you like titegroup then why bother switching?

 

edit: case lube really does make loading nicer.

 

I agree with rowdy, if titegroup will give you the desired result then I would stick with it. 

 

Lube on pistol cases makes resizing so much easier, I won't load without it. 

 

The smaller you get your SD the closer you can run to the minimum power factor without failing. With a SD of 23 you would need to average about 980 fps to have a high confidence rate (95%) that you would not go sub minor. Using your titegroup data you would need to average about 940 fps for the same confidence rate.  This is based off your limited data you posted but it appears that titegroup would be a better choice in this case. 

[dspring]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

if you like titegroup then why bother switching?

 

edit: case lube really does make loading nicer.

 

Well, I sort of like it. I acknowledge that I can make PF, however it is dirty and with a very snappy recoil. When I shot RSC I saw my sights come back on target without barely leaving it, a much better recoil than I have experienced so far. 

 

Hope that explains how I feel. I am definitively going to lube. Am away from home for a few days but next week it’s OneShot all the way. 

 

EDIT Also, I just bought 2 8lbs jugs of RSC, got a deal from a relative of a reloader who passed. So there is that. 

 

Will also secure the correct distance from the chrono.

Edited March 22, 2018 by dspring

[edison]

 
Well, I sort of like it. I acknowledge that I can make PF, however it is dirty and with a very snappy recoil. When I shot RSC I saw my sights come back on target without barely leaving it, a much better recoil than I have experienced so far. 
 
Hope that explains how I feel. I am definitively going to lube. Am away from home for a few days but next week it’s OneShot all the way. 
 
EDIT Also, I just bought 2 8lbs jugs of RSC, got a deal from a relative of a reloader who passed. So there is that. 
 
Will also secure the correct distance from the chrono.

If you get oneshot, I would get the aerosol can one & avoid the spray bottle. The spray bottle leaves a tacky residue for me while the aerosols stayed slick.

[cs62]

I had the same issue with the water based spray bottle of One Shot, switched to the One Shot aerosol can and no more tacky residue.

[dspring]

7 hours ago, edison said:

 

If you get oneshot, I would get the aerosol can one & avoid the spray bottle. The spray bottle leaves a tacky residue for me while the aerosols stayed slick.

 

 

I have ordered that from Amazon and actually hit “subscribe and save”.

 

Why do Dillon reps say don’t use it though? What’s their reasoning?

[Sarge]

7 hours ago, edison said:

 

If you get oneshot, I would get the aerosol can one & avoid the spray bottle. The spray bottle leaves a tacky residue for me while the aerosols stayed slick.

 

And the spray bottle stuff doesn't work nearly as well either. That crap should be a mention in the "Things you only do once" thread. 

[Sarge]

8 minutes ago, dspring said:

 

I have ordered that from Amazon and actually hit “subscribe and save”.

 

Why do Dillon reps say don’t use it though? What’s their reasoning?

Probably lawyer involvement regarding getting the powder contaminated and causing a squib. Who knows? Ignore it.

[edison]

28 minutes ago, dspring said:

 

I have ordered that from Amazon and actually hit “subscribe and save”.

 

Why do Dillon reps say don’t use it though? What’s their reasoning?

 

Because certain lubes will contaminate & affect the powder. You don't have to worry about that with the hornady oneshot aerosol; just let it evaporate for like 5mins.

Like Sarge said, it's just a CYA thing. I shoot reloads in my gun even though Glock explicitly printed "DO NOT USE HANDLOADS OR RELOADED AMMUNITION" 

 

I'd get inflammation in my shoulder if I didn't lube my pistol cases.

[IHAVEGAS]

I used spray bottle one shot - once - agreed it is not the way to go, now I use spray bottle lanolin and alcohol home brew. 

 

With either I occasionally get some lube inside the case and you see powder stuck to the inside wall where the lube is, doesn't look good but I can not detect any effect to performance. I make the effort to avoid getting lube inside as best I can, but beyond that I do not fret about it when it happens. 

[zzt]

If it is the powder funnel/expander doing the sticking, getting some sort of lubricant inside the case mouth is essential.  I put one capful of Dillon Case Cleaner in with new media and run for half an hour to distribute.  I don't ever add any more.  I tumble wet cleaned brass for 30 minutes to 'lube', and fired cases for 3-4 hours to clean and 'lube'  I never have any sticking problems if I follow these procedures.

 

BTW, I now use whole grain white rice as my cleaning media.  It lasts way longer than corn cob or walnut hull media.  I still use Dillon Case Cleaner.  I've found that for cases smaller than 45, the rice does not clean the insides of the case spotlessly.  There is a tiny bit of residual carbon.  It doesn't affect anything, but it might solve dspring's problem.

[dspring]

Funny Edison mentioned inflammation of the shoulder. I have AC separation in my right shoulder and a pretty big cartilage tear, and when I reload it oftentimes burns like hell, so you can only imagine how I welcome the lubing recommendation. 

 

I will I’ll add some case cleaner also to my cleaning medium and lube cases in a ziplock.

 

Will do my best to load consistent brass with the new loads and run the chrono 10ft. 

 

The only thing that I am not clear about is the suggestion to “hand load” in a prior post. What does that mean?

Edited March 23, 2018 by dspring

[SCTaylor]

@dspring by hand weigh I mean weigh out each charge individually on the scale so you know all 10 are 3.8, all 10 are 3.9, all 10 are 4.0, etc.

 

This takes out all of the variability powder drop, allowing you to run the know charge weight loads over the chrono.

[dspring]

11 hours ago, SCTaylor said:

@dspring by hand weigh I mean weigh out each charge individually on the scale so you know all 10 are 3.8, all 10 are 3.9, all 10 are 4.0, etc.

 

This takes out all of the variability powder drop, allowing you to run the know charge weight loads over the chrono.

 

Thank you, I was wondering if there was was some technique I wasn’t aware of. Now it makes sense. Will do.  

[IDescribe]

On 3/21/2018 at 11:33 AM, dspring said:

 

The recipe was 135gr BBI, 3.8gr of Ramshot, and OAL 1.100

 

 

Have you checked your max OAL for that bullet in your SP01?  I had to load that bullet down to 1.075 - 1.080 to keep the bullet out of rifling engagement when chambered.

[dspring]

1 hour ago, IDescribe said:

 

Have you checked your max OAL for that bullet in your SP01?  I had to load that bullet down to 1.075 - 1.080 to keep the bullet out of rifling engagement when chambered.

 

No, have shot it through a P10C and a Sphinx SDP only so far. Wasn’t concerned about making PF with a longer barrel so I didn’t test it. The Sphinx is pretty though, and it fed fine. 

[dspring]

Well, today I prepared 3 batches at 3.8, 3.9, 4.0

 

A few things learnt:

 

1) lubing is the s%$^, makes everything easier. No hurt shoulder, no spills.

 

2) hand loading is telling, there are measurable variations between drops.

 

3) hand loading is exhausting, but you learn to be very deliberate and precise.

 

The only thing I forgot to do was hand picking the brass. In a way I am OK with it, this has to work with my courtyard pickings.

 

When I go to the range, I will position the chrono farther, 10ft.

 

Thank you for the kind repliesl this thread is teaching me a few interesting things. 

 

Will reports results.

 

 

 

 

[gsc0tt]

On 3/21/2018 at 8:33 AM, dspring said:

First of all THANK YOU for the great deal of information made available on this forum, very helpful for people like me.

 

I am a prudent reloader, but not an expert one. Have been loading 9mm for a few years but recently I have encountered a new problem related to making PF in CCP. 

 

I have, on the personal recommendation  from the owner of BBI, tried Ramshot Competition which, according to him, has a "much better recoil impulse" than the powder I am used to, Titegroup.

 

The recipe was 135gr BBI, 3.8gr of Ramshot, and OAL 1.100

 

My average velocity was 913.7 which does not make PF, and this was shot with an SP01, outside temperature of 64.

 

910.8

916.6

947

898

929.2

880.7

 

Incidentally, I am also concerned about the spread, which seems to way higher than what I get with TG. It is a nice load, recoil seemed very linear but I need to make PF. Also, why the spread?

 

Do you please have a recipe with RSC does makes PF even in warmer temperatures (I am in Texas).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Find a buddy with another chrono and side by side each to see any differences in FPS reading

[Steve RA]

If using two chronos, line them up so you get two readings from same shot.  Also, no closer than 10ft for pistol, 15ft better for rifle.

[Jeremyc_1999]

are you guys cleaning the cases after loading when lubing the cases?   Also, I find (from long range precision shooting) that having a good chronograph is key.  I would recommend a magnetospeed (if you can mount it to your pistol) or a labradar.

[Hi-Power Jack]

9 minutes ago, Jeremyc_1999 said:

are you cleaning the cases after loading when lubing the cases? 

 

I don't     

[IHAVEGAS]

59 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

I don't     

 

+1

[dspring]

I hand loaded and tested 5 loads, 2 with Ramshot Competition, 3 with Titegroup.

 

Results are posted below. My impression is that lube made a world of difference, particularly with Ramshot, which fills the case a lot more and was very prone to fly out when I was slamming the lever down to free the deprimed cases off the first position. The smooth operation of the press was clearly noticeable,  the press shellplate was clean and powder free.

Obviously hand loading ensured consistency, and I did notice minor variations from round to round, but in the .1 grain range.

 

Here are the results, hoping to add something useful to the body of information available here.

 

The loads were all with BBI 135gr, loaded at 1.095 which works perfectly in my CZ P10C.

Temperature outside 57F, no idea what the pressure was. Gusty wind, 10 ft. from Cronograph (CED M2) 

 

Bullet	Bullet weight	Powder weight	Powder	OAL	Pistol	Speed	Average	PF
BBi	135	3.8	RSC	1.095	CZP10	1022.0	988.0	133.4
						996.3
						996.5
						968.6
						974.1
						1001.0
						949.1
						985.7
						999.0
Bullet	Bullet weight	Powder weight	Powder	OAL	Pistol	Speed	Average	PF
BBi	135	3.9	RSC	1.095	CZP10	994.1	1013.4	136.8
						1003
						993
						1034
						1010
						1030
						1030
Bullet	Bullet weight	Powder weight	Powder	OAL	Pistol	Speed	Average	PF
BBi	135	3.2	TG	1.095	CZP10	945.5	939.9	126.9
						931.4
						919.2
						939.2
						939.9
						964.1
Bullet	Bullet weight	Powder weight	Powder	OAL	Pistol	Speed	Average	PF
BBi	135	3.3	TG	1.095	CZP10	946.6	963.2	130.0
						964.3
						960.5
						972.5
						957.5
						958.1
						985.6
						966.1
						958.0
Bullet	Bullet weight	Powder weight	Powder	OAL	Pistol	Speed	Average	PF
BBi	135	3.4	TG	1.095	CZP10	978.5	970.7	131.0
						958.4
						965.1
						974.2
						945.9
						979.1
						957.6
						980.7
						979.2
						988.4

 

 

Now, given that Ramshot is temperature sensitive, what kind of speed drop should I see when the temperature goes to 100?

 

 

Finally, my impression of the 3.8 RSC was very good, and actually so was of the 3.3 Titegroup. Both accurate, both with a good recoil impulse.

 

 

Thank y'all!

 

 

EDIT: a question: since my chrono has a memory and review function, I tend to load a mag and shoot rapidly all the shots then I review them and write them down. Does that affect the result somehow?

Edited April 4, 2018 by dspring

[CHA-LEE]

The temperature variation is usually the heat of the loaded round, not the air temp. You can artificially heat the ammo by putting it in a zip lock bag then placing it on a heater vent on your car to heat up the ammo. Once the ammo is "Hot" then pull it off the heater vent, load it in a mag and fire it over the chrono. 

[dspring]

2 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

The temperature variation is usually the heat of the loaded round, not the air temp. You can artificially heat the ammo by putting it in a zip lock bag then placing it on a heater vent on your car to heat up the ammo. Once the ammo is "Hot" then pull it off the heater vent, load it in a mag and fire it over the chrono. 

I only shoot outdoor, will wait for the temperature to increase then will leave some rounds in the sun, around here that sure heats up things some.

[L3324temp]

 
but a Dillon technician told me that if the cases are too clean the resizing dies might stick. She said that “some carbon helps the press work better” so now I run the tumbler for 1 ½ - 2 hours only.
 
 

This is spot on. I tumble a minimal amount of time with case polish and never need to lube pistol cases.


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