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In a bind


dspring

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First of all THANK YOU for the great deal of information made available on this forum, very helpful for people like me.

 

I am a prudent reloader, but not an expert one. Have been loading 9mm for a few years but recently I have encountered a new problem related to making PF in CCP. 

 

I have, on the personal recommendation  from the owner of BBI, tried Ramshot Competition which, according to him, has a "much better recoil impulse" than the powder I am used to, Titegroup.

 

The recipe was 135gr BBI, 3.8gr of Ramshot, and OAL 1.100

 

My average velocity was 913.7 which does not make PF, and this was shot with an SP01, outside temperature of 64.

 

910.8

916.6

947

898

929.2

880.7

 

Incidentally, I am also concerned about the spread, which seems to way higher than what I get with TG. It is a nice load, recoil seemed very linear but I need to make PF. Also, why the spread?

 

Do you please have a recipe with RSC does makes PF even in warmer temperatures (I am in Texas).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ofishl1 said:

Powder drops comfirmed consistent I assume?

 

 

Usually, yes. I think that what is happening with this powder is that it flies off the case when I have to pull the handle hard because of a sticky round in the resizing die (Dillon Square Deal).

 

I noticed that the press gets very messy when I load with that powder, the mess must come from between the second and the third station.

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Not having enough powder inside the case can lead to inconsistent velocity. I wouldn't worry about the standard deviation variance until you get the velocity well above the minimum power factor. For most powders 0.1gr = 20fps. I would suggest trying 3.9, 4.0, and 4.1 powder drops and see how that performs.

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1 hour ago, BritinUSA said:

Are you lubing the cases prior to loading?

 

I learnt everything about fixing my press while talking to Dillon reps, and they always told me not to,. Maybe I should when using this powder.

 

With TG is not an issue, because the quantities are so small that very little if anything flies off the cases.

 

Is the consensus here to lube even pistol rounds?

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1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

Not having enough powder inside the case can lead to inconsistent velocity. I wouldn't worry about the standard deviation variance until you get the velocity well above the minimum power factor. For most powders 0.1gr = 20fps. I would suggest trying 3.9, 4.0, and 4.1 powder drops and see how that performs.

 

I wanted to ask if it was safe to go up since I can’t find official RSC load data anywhere for 9mm. What is the maximum for this powder I am worried because the case looks super full and am not used to it.

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1 minute ago, dspring said:


 

Is the consensus here to lube even pistol rounds?

 

I don't know of anyone locally who does not lube the outside of their pistol cases. There is a thread here somewhere about making you own lube & saving a buck.

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Dspring> If you are looking for an official limit to custom hand loaded ammo its not going to happen. You are all on your own to figure it out just like everyone else. Use the primer condition after shooting to determine if pressure issues are starting or not. Hand loaders have been using primer condition to determine safety limits since the start of hand loading. 

 

That being said, I find it hard to believe you are getting close to pressure issues when trying to create Minor Power Factor ammo and its not even making minor power factor yet.

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That's an SD of 23, not really that bad and ES of 48.  Those are not stellar but we can work with them.

 

First off, get the sticky die issue fixed. Use some oneshot case lube. Search the forum on how to apply but generally try to keep the lube out of the case mouth/inside.

 

Secondly hand weigh ~10 charges of each 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 to make sure it is the correct weight. Then run over the chrono. Eliminate the charge weight variable first.

Edited by SCTaylor
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The other variable you can eliminate is brass variations. During your load testing use the same head stamp brass for all tested rounds. 9mm brass can have dramatically different internal case volumes from one manufacture to the next.

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You may find the the sticky problem is the expander/funnel sticking in a too clean case.  If you wet clean your brass, throw them in a tumbler with media that has had a half capful of Dillon Case Cleaner added.  Run for 30 minutes and the sticking problem will go away.

 

The Dillon powder measure is very sensitive to smooth, consistent press operation.

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I wanted to ask if it was safe to go up since I can’t find official RSC load data anywhere for 9mm. What is the maximum for this powder I am worried because the case looks super full and am not used to it.
You looking for any 9mm data, or just for the 135gr.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I'd guess it's a problem with your powder drop or your chrono ...

 

Inconsistent powder drops    ,     or,     problem with chrono.    

 

I have very consistent velocities when using TG, very low spreads, so I tend to think this is not it.

 

This is my latest (follows the one above) chrono test with 

BBI 135 gr

3.5 gr Titegroup

OAL 1.090

Temp 69

 

1009

1001

1007

1016

1015

1014

1009

1011

1007

 

So I don’’t think I have an inaccurate drop, or a malfunctioning press.

 

 

7 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Maybe set up too close to the gun? 

 

I set up the chrono at 5-6ft or so from the gun.

file

Edited by dspring
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7 hours ago, SCTaylor said:

That's an SD of 23, not really that bad and ES of 48.  Those are not stellar but we can work with them.

 

First off, get the sticky die issue fixed. Use some oneshot case lube. Search the forum on how to apply but generally try to keep the lube out of the case mouth/inside.

 

Secondly hand weigh ~10 charges of each 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 to make sure it is the correct weight. Then run over the chrono. Eliminate the charge weight variable first.

 

I will get the sticky issue fixed, will use a gallon size ziplock as I have read on the forum. I used it in the past, I stopped after the people at Dillon told me not to.,

 

Hand weigh? What do you mean? I use an Hornady electronic scale, calibrate it often.

 

I will prepare those loads and test them, does 1.090 seem reasonable in terms of OAL?

 

5 hours ago, zzt said:

You may find the the sticky problem is the expander/funnel sticking in a too clean case.  If you wet clean your brass, throw them in a tumbler with media that has had a half capful of Dillon Case Cleaner added.  Run for 30 minutes and the sticking problem will go away.

 

The Dillon powder measure is very sensitive to smooth, consistent press operation.

 

I dry clean my brass, I use a generic medium, no polish. I used to let the tumbler go for 3-4 hours or so, but a Dillon technician told me that if the cases are too clean the resizing dies might stick. She said that “some carbon helps the press work better” so now I run the tumbler for 1 ½ - 2 hours only.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, 223to45 said:

You looking for any 9mm data, or just for the 135gr.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

 

I am trying to find a good load that will run well and make PF in my CCP gun as well so that I can simplify life. I have just bought 3,500 135 gr BBI bullets hoping to focus on them, since I prefer the shape of the 135 to that of the 147 bullets at least for BBI.

 

That said, if you have a recipe that makes PF in a 4” or so gun (CZ P10C) I am listening. 

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6 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

The other variable you can eliminate is brass variations. During your load testing use the same head stamp brass for all tested rounds. 9mm brass can have dramatically different internal case volumes from one manufacture to the next.

 

 

I have noticed that, sometimes I stop thinking am loading a .380 brass but it turns out it’s just a small 9mm case. I will do that, but since I only use range brass I would like to find a recipe that works with what I have.

Edited by dspring
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6 hours ago, edison said:

  try shooting at least 10 feet away from the chrono.

 

This is important to getting consistent results from your chrono.

 

At 5-6 feet away, you are blowing too much gas/particles thru

your chrono that might interfere with your consistent results    :) 

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16 hours ago, dspring said:

 

I learnt everything about fixing my press while talking to Dillon reps, and they always told me not to,. Maybe I should when using this powder.

 

With TG is not an issue, because the quantities are so small that very little if anything flies off the cases.

 

Is the consensus here to lube even pistol rounds?

Yes, Ignore the advice from Dillon in this case. Lube fixes all kinds of Reloading problems .

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