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Plate rack plates popping back up

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In shooting a plate rack you'll sometimes see the plates pop  back up.  Is that a REF? Does it count as a hit since the plate did fall? Do you have to hit the plate again until it stays down?  Sorry for asking, just too lazy to look it up.

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It's also a reshoot.  Range equipment failures that keep happening can get the stage thrown out also if they can't solve the problem. 

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Probably why plate racks are not official USPSA targets. Too many issues with a lot of racks.

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1 hour ago, Cuz said:

Probably why plate racks are not official USPSA targets. Too many issues with a lot of racks.

How is it not official? As long as the plates are official size it’s just a set of legal plates.

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We see the same issue occasionally on individual plates that a local range uses. We don't really care if it bounces back up after it falls. once it falls, it is scored as a hit. rules don't say anything about steel must fall and stay down in order to score.

 

I can see where someone would want to argue for a reshoot, especially if they screwed up the rest of the run, or thought they had to make the steel stay down in order to score, but at least locally people don't seem to have any issue with just shooting it down once and being done with it.

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Agree with moto, if it falls (or fell), then what's the issue?

 

I don't see a basis for declaring REF and wouldn't entertain a reshoot on that basis if the shooter requested one.

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it does throw some confusion into the mix.  did i hit #2 or #3, which one bounced back up, etc?  or you hit it and move on and then at end of cof see one standing and hit it again. even if it's only a fraction of a second, guessing most folks are distracted/affected when a plate pops back up.

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EVERY time I have shot a match with a plate rack that had a plate pop back up was REF. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, davsco said:

it does throw some confusion into the mix.  did i hit #2 or #3, which one bounced back up, etc?  or you hit it and move on and then at end of cof see one standing and hit it again. even if it's only a fraction of a second, guessing most folks are distracted/affected when a plate pops back up.

 

yeah, i could see that point, especially for a really fast shooter when the plates are close together... otoh most really fast shooters are also skilled and calling their shots and will be aware the plate bounced back up. doesn't seem a whole lot different to me than an unrestored target. It may throw the shooter off a little, but that's sort of his problem to deal with. Optimal solution is to just fix the damn rack so it works properly.

Edited by motosapiens

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At a match just this weekend that was an issue. Original stage design had a plate rack with the plates turned 90 degrees. So you shot the plate rack on end, the 6 plates in a row behind one another in tandem. Well the guys shooting major kept having the plates pop back up. MD pulled the rack put in a traditional one and had those who shot re shoot. Round count didnt' change, similar shooting challenge and was dealt with quickly.

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For sure if the plate pops back up and obscures something you need to shoot, that would be REF.

 

The more common issue on plate racks that i have seen is plate that gets nicked by splatter falls prematurely. that's usually just a matter of adjustment.

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8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

 

The more common issue on plate racks that i have seen is plate that gets nicked by splatter falls prematurely. that's usually just a matter of adjustment.

So is the plate popping back up. Put a shim under the front legs or magnets for plate to fall on and it cures the problem.

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another good use for magnets! yes, great idea. we use magnets to move around and keep a polish plate rack perfectly balanced quickly.

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On 3/19/2018 at 12:45 PM, motosapiens said:

 

otoh most really fast shooters are also skilled and calling their shots and will be aware the plate bounced back up.

 

Have only had it happen once but if you call the shot & especially if you hear the hit then you are not going to stand there & watch the plate go down and come up. 

Wouldn't have known it happened to me except I was wearing a hat cam, r.o. didn't see the plate fall & it was scored as a mike (local match, plates not repainted religiously). 

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We have some individual plates with rubber bumpers that have this problem a lot with Major PF loads.  We were contemplating removing the bumpers, but I'm wondering whether that will cause cracking more quickly.  I really like the magnet idea.

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On 3/19/2018 at 7:03 AM, Sarge said:

How is it not official? As long as the plates are official size it’s just a set of legal plates.

 

I thought it said it in the rules that you couldn't use them, but I couldn't find it so I guess they may be ok after all.

I stand corrected.

 

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21 minutes ago, Cuz said:

 

I thought it said it in the rules that you couldn't use them, but I couldn't find it so I guess they may be ok after all.

I stand corrected.

 

Same as a Texas star. Just another way to use falling plates. They probably SHOULD be illegal in larger matches because of failure rate but thats not the case.

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15 hours ago, Sarge said:

Same as a Texas star. Just another way to use falling plates. They probably SHOULD be illegal in larger matches because of failure rate but thats not the case.

 

You think it is inherent to the equipment?

Maybe it is, but most issues I see seem to be with home made designs, or unstable bases that move during the match (particularly when the ground is soft) , or plates that were not adjusted well from the git go, or pivot points that have never seen oil.

 

All that said, full size heavy poppers are going to hose you now and then if you shoot minor, unless there is no wind & somebody is really on top of maintaining calibration to the point that a hit anywhere in the scoring zone will drop them. 

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41 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

You think it is inherent to the equipment?

Maybe it is, but most issues I see seem to be with home made designs, or unstable bases that move during the match (particularly when the ground is soft) , or plates that were not adjusted well from the git go, or pivot points that have never seen oil.

 

All that said, full size heavy poppers are going to hose you now and then if you shoot minor, unless there is no wind & somebody is really on top of maintaining calibration to the point that a hit anywhere in the scoring zone will drop them. 

We put a brand new MGM Star in a state match and it took 3 sets of springs to make it through 300 shooters. On the last day it needed constant work between squads to salvage the stage.

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12 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

Circus props have no place in major matches.  

 

You find ways to get f*#ked on wide open paper targets, let alone BS steel props at majors. LOL

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7 minutes ago, Sarge said:

We put a brand new MGM Star in a state match and it took 3 sets of springs to make it through 300 shooters. On the last day it needed constant work between squads to salvage the stage.

 

Ick. I'm sure there are better and worse designs and certainly have been at matches where there was problem equipment. My local club purchased a magnetic clamp type star either last year or the year before, I can't ever remember seeing a range equipment failure with it. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Shadyscott999 said:

Circus props have no place in major matches.  

 

My most fun & favorite match every year is the Missouri state USPSA championship, plate racks, multiple Texas stars, a really tough polish plate rack (&*$#!), just a ridiculous amount of steel spread out through 10 or 12 stages. I mean no offense and I don't know what those folks know or do different which makes things work, but it is a great match. 

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