lighter 24 3g trigger pull

[jtrump]

1 hour ago, L9X25 said:

This may just be attributable to pure luck, but all (3) of my JP triggers break at about 2 lbs, my CTR is about 1.75 and my GMR is just under 2 lbs with a third right at 2 lbs.  Because of the design, they have zero take-up and short throw with no creep.  I replaced the springs with the JP reduced power springs on the one trigger that did not already come with the yellow reduced power springs.  

Hmm, I used all supplies springs with the hyperfire kit.  I was hoping for a 2lb trigger.  I know 2.6 isn’t a far cry off but it’s not a 2lb trigger either :/.    What to do

[L9X25]

If you are expecting a 6 lb trigger and it turns out to be 7 lbs, they missed by just over 16%.  If you are expecting a 2 lb, and get a 2.6, they missed by 30%.

 

I don't think that anybody promises a 2 lb trigger for an AR9, and that is one of the reasons that I keep my JP triggers.  Other than having to be polished and adjusted by the installer, they seem to give great results.   Good enough that I would not spend the money to replace them with something else.    

 

If I did not already have a JP, I would likely buy a Hiperfire because of price.

[RaylanGivens]

I realize that this is a fairly old thread, but it has some good information on lightening HiperFire triggers.

 

I have a 10.5" 9mm PCC SBR and was using an AR Gold 308 trigger set to 1Lb 5oz...  I like the pre-travel and light trigger pull for long distance targets on PCC only matches, but it's not so hot for follow-up shots.

 

I returned to a HiperFire Eclipse trigger that I was using before switching to the AR Gold...  I like it, but it has a trigger pull weight of 2Lb 9oz...   It is also very hard to pull back the charging handle to insert the chamber flag after Unload and Show Clear in USPSA matches.

 

My HiperFire Eclipse has two individual legs for the upper springs...  I was using uncoated silver upper springs...  I talked to HiperFire and they said the springs had been improved in my early HiperFire trigger...  They sent me new green springs and a new hammer spring that matches them...  I installed the new green springs and hammer spring...  Pull weight is now a bit lower at 2Lb 6oz...  It is still hard to pull back the charging handle to load a round or after UASC.

 

Would ultimately like to get the pull weight down to 2Lbs or under if possible...  Anyone had any luck reducing HiperFire pull weight since this thread was originally started?

 

[mstamper]

1 hour ago, RaylanGivens said:

I realize that this is a fairly old thread, but it has some good information on lightening HiperFire triggers.
 
I have a 10.5" 9mm PCC SBR and was using an AR Gold 308 trigger set to 1Lb 5oz...  I like the pre-travel and light trigger pull for long distance targets on PCC only matches, but it's not so hot for follow-up shots.
 
I returned to a HiperFire Eclipse trigger that I was using before switching to the AR Gold...  I like it, but it has a trigger pull weight of 2Lb 9oz...   It is also very hard to pull back the charging handle to insert the chamber flag after Unload and Show Clear in USPSA matches.
 
My HiperFire Eclipse has two individual legs for the upper springs...  I was using uncoated silver upper springs...  I talked to HiperFire and they said the springs had been improved in my early HiperFire trigger...  They sent me new green springs and a new hammer spring that matches them...  I installed the new green springs and hammer spring...  Pull weight is now a bit lower at 2Lb 6oz...  It is still hard to pull back the charging handle to load a round or after UASC.
 
Would ultimately like to get the pull weight down to 2Lbs or under if possible...  Anyone had any luck reducing HiperFire pull weight since this thread was originally started?
 

I'm not aware of any way to reduce the hiperfire 24c. Hyperfire just introduced a new drop in trigger named PHANTOM but those are advertised at 2 pounds.
There is a GM I know who uses a 24c and kicks butt. I don't think it will help to go lighter.

As far as hard to pull the charging handle, that is an issue with your buffer tube spring and buffer. The trigger pull weight has nothing to do with charging the gun. If you want to lighten the charging pull you will have to change out the buffer spring.

 

I realize I started this thread and after 2 years of shooting nothing but PCC I can tell you that there is NOT a reliable way to lighten the trigger pull on a hiperfire trigger.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by mstamper

[BoyGlock]

Newbie here. Is it natural for triggers of light pull have the bolt hard to pull back? Would it not compromise feeding/ejection reliability?

 

My milspec trigger pull is 6lbs and my bolt is light to pull back. I dont have plans to lightens its pull for now. 

 

 

[mstamper]

40 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

Newbie here. Is it natural for triggers of light pull have the bolt hard to pull back? Would it not compromise feeding/ejection reliability?

 

My milspec trigger pull is 6lbs and my bolt is light to pull back. I dont have plans to lightens its pull for now. 

 

 

Again, like I said in the previous reply. trigger PULL has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the amount of effort it takes to pull the the bolt back OR the cycling of the bolt. THE ONLY thing the trigger has to do with the entire operation of an AR it to fall on the firing pin and ignite the primer to fire the round. The gas developed in the firing of the cartridge is what drives the bolt back and the speed of travel of the bolt is determined by the recoil buffer spring. The buffer on its rearward movement resets the hammer on the trigger. THIS is the same operation as in a pistol. 

 

There are dozens of threads in the PCC section of this forum about getting a proper balance between cycle time and buffer spring and buffer. Do a search and you will learn tons. There are lots of opinions on the subject. You will just have to pick a starting point and experiment for what works for you.

[RaylanGivens]

On 1/11/2020 at 6:52 PM, mstamper said:

I'm not aware of any way to reduce the hiperfire 24c. Hyperfire just introduced a new drop in trigger named PHANTOM but those are advertised at 2 pounds.

 

Interesting that the HiperFire Phantom is going to be 2 pounds and sell for a hundred dollars less that the HiperFire Eclipse...  I guess we'll find out what the story is when it's released in March.

 

Quote

As far as hard to pull the charging handle, that is an issue with your buffer tube spring and buffer. The trigger pull weight has nothing to do with charging the gun. If you want to lighten the charging pull you will have to change out the buffer spring.

 

The trigger pull weight doesn't directly affect pulling the charging handle...  But...  The HiperFire double toggle springs sole purpose is to increase pressure on the hammer...  and that makes the hammer harder to pull back when you pull back the charging handle to insert a chamber flag after you shoot.

 

Pulling back the charging handle after shooting with AR Gold and TriggerTech triggers is normal...  Putting in a HiperFire trigger increases the  pull again.

 

[mstamper]

 
The trigger pull weight doesn't directly affect pulling the charging handle...  But...  The HiperFire double toggle springs sole purpose is to increase pressure on the hammer...  and that makes the hammer harder to pull back when you pull back the charging handle to insert a chamber flag after you shoot.
 
Pulling back the charging handle after shooting with AR Gold and TriggerTech triggers is normal...  Putting in a HiperFire trigger increases the  pull again.
 

The double springs are there to make the hammer fall with more force to assure a firmer firing pin strike.
I have charged timney and hyperfire triggers. The only felt difference was due to the buffer spring.
If you learn about the hiperfires you will learn that they are designed to reset easily.

The poster who started this back up stated that he thought a lighter TRIGGER PULL would result in a charging handle that was easier to pull and that is FALSE.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

[Hihellosup]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:22 PM, mstamper said:

Again, like I said in the previous reply. trigger PULL has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the amount of effort it takes to pull the the bolt back OR the cycling of the bolt. THE ONLY thing the trigger has to do with the entire operation of an AR it to fall on the firing pin and ignite the primer to fire the round. The gas developed in the firing of the cartridge is what drives the bolt back and the speed of travel of the bolt is determined by the recoil buffer spring. The buffer on its rearward movement resets the hammer on the trigger. THIS is the same operation as in a pistol. 

The hammer absolutely does matter, even on a pistol.

 

Simple experiment - take a hammer fired pistol, hammer down. Run the slide, which cocks the hammer. Do it again now that the hammer is cocked - it will be MUCH easier. Changing the hammer spring in my CZ changed how it feels to cock it.

 

I can't tell you how noticable in feel it is in a pcc with a hiperfire trigger, but I can tell you that in my ar-15, I swapped out my Ruger 2 stage trigger for a Rise Armament 535 drop in trigger, and the gun wouldn't cycle properly anymore, which was due to the BCG velocity changing. The velocity change was caused by the new trigger requiring a different amount of force to reset the hammer. I had to re-adjust the gas system.

 

My point is that changing the hammer spring weight does affect the bolt cycle. The bolt has to overcome the weight of the buffer spring, as well as the hammer spring when it cycles.

[ck1]

The way the Hiperfire triggers work (kinda like a compound-bow), I totally get it affecting or having an effect on pulling back the bolt (this is exactly why they seem to play nicer and not kill themselves so quickly with PCC’s really). It's the same thing with 1911's or tuned-up CZ's where the hammer-spring affects things; I get it.

Though really, with a PCC, it’s almost unnoticeable. 
 

That said, with the heaviest springs (yielding the lightest trigger pull) once broken-in, mine (I own 3 on a few different guns) all pull just below 2.5lbs and I really have never wished for them to be lighter while still being a total self-admitted OCD/Trigger-snob... (people come up to me almost every time I hit a square range when just testing stuff asking to try my “full auto” which isn't lol)!

 

Not to sound snarky, but I honestly don’t know what going sub-2lbs vs 2.5ish would fix that working on transitions and other fundamentals wouldn't? Pretty sure Max and/or most of the better guys out there aren’t going any lighter than that or that being their "secret sauce", and that'd they would still smoke me or most of us with them running 7lb triggers hahaha...

 

For Long -Range Precision Rifle, at 400+ yards or whatever, I could definitely see trying to go lighter, but for PCC? ...IDK. JMHO.

Edited January 16, 2020 by ck1
typingishardyo

[RaylanGivens]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:46 PM, Hihellosup said:

The hammer absolutely does matter, even on a pistol.

 

Simple experiment - take a hammer fired pistol, hammer down. Run the slide, which cocks the hammer. Do it again now that the hammer is cocked - it will be MUCH easier. Changing the hammer spring in my CZ changed how it feels to cock it.

 

I can't tell you how noticable in feel it is in a pcc with a hiperfire trigger, but I can tell you that in my ar-15, I swapped out my Ruger 2 stage trigger for a Rise Armament 535 drop in trigger, and the gun wouldn't cycle properly anymore, which was due to the BCG velocity changing. The velocity change was caused by the new trigger requiring a different amount of force to reset the hammer. I had to re-adjust the gas system.

 

My point is that changing the hammer spring weight does affect the bolt cycle. The bolt has to overcome the weight of the buffer spring, as well as the hammer spring when it cycles.

 

Agreed...  Good info...

 

I can put up with the hard to pull charging handle...  I've been shooting it like that for quite a while...  It is just more of an annoyance trying to balance the stock on my knee...  pulling back the charging handle...   and inserting a chamber flag all at once after ULSC.

 

My Eclipse currently pulls at 2Lb 6oz with a Lyman digital gauge...  Not terrible...  But not 1Lb 5oz like my AR Gold either.