Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
Drpparker95

Glock shooting left

Recommended Posts

On 3/16/2018 at 3:48 PM, boudreux said:

I have. I know an M class shooter that shot glocks for years and shot them left. Switched guns, made M and still shoots glocks left. I agree that technique is probably the major issue the majority of the time, but not always. 

That actually kinda reinforces The point. 

 

Tell me, he shoots all glocks left, or just his?  

 

Look, the sight drift thing on Glocks is well documented on this forum.  I had to drift the sight when I first started on Glocks. But over time that sight returned to middle of gun. It’s very common. 

 

I no longer shoot Glocks, strictly 1911 grip angle guns for me. But, I have a funny story of a guy ready to trash his Glocks because he couldn’t figure out how to press the trigger on one. Not that he knew that was the problem. His Glocks shot perfectly fine for me.

 

YMMV. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chris iliff said:

That actually kinda reinforces The point. 

 

Tell me, he shoots all glocks left, or just his?  

 

Look, the sight drift thing on Glocks is well documented on this forum.  I had to drift the sight when I first started on Glocks. But over time that sight returned to middle of gun. It’s very common. 

 

I no longer shoot Glocks, strictly 1911 grip angle guns for me. But, I have a funny story of a guy ready to trash his Glocks because he couldn’t figure out how to press the trigger on one. Not that he knew that was the problem. His Glocks shot perfectly fine for me.

 

YMMV. 

 

 

 

 

Just shoots mine left, should have added that in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jake Di Vita said:

 

For sure. To be a little more specific it isn't enough to just do some reps at high intensity to cause failure. If you highlight an error and then slow down to try to fix it, you've changed the conditions that created the error. In order to actually expand abilities the trick is to fix the error at the same speed/intensity which caused the error in the first place. The reps that you can fix your problems without slowing down are the most productive reps in training.

 

This is the general method I use for learning or teaching any skill:

1- Be able to execute a given skill with minimum or no intensity.

2- Add intensity until errors creep in.

3- Fix the errors at that same intensity.

Repeat steps two and three indefinitely. 

 

I think we're heading a little off track, but i find it an interesting discussion.

I understand, that it makes sense to look for and maybe fix problems at the speed they occour, especially when inertia comes into play.

Still, I find it very hard sometimes, to be aware or focused on exactly what I want to concentrate on during a practice session. For example during draw I do focus for 10 draws on gripping the gun correctly, then I focus on indexing my left hand correctly for 10 draws , then I focus on tracking the frontsight during last part of extension, then I focus on the proper grip tension as I reach extension, etc, etc... and the faster I get, the harder it is to make sure each of those elements are executed correctly. For example, if I ramp up the speed I will certainly try to focus on one of those elements like gripping correctly before pulling it out of the holster, but at speed it's hard to tell if I really executed the technique correctly (in real-time) until I reach full extension and see or feel the final result. Or screw something up midway.

So I usually practice these things quite slow but very deliberatly. But sometimes nowhere near the speed at which problems would occour. However every now and then I ramp up speed to see where my technique breaks apart and what excatly happens, and try to adress that during slower, more deliberate repetitions. Maybe I should try to speed things up, work out problems near the speed they occour and trust my subconscious more to monitor what I'm doing, instead of working at lower speeds where my conscious works?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, impact said:

Still, I find it very hard sometimes, to be aware or focused on exactly what I want to concentrate on during a practice session. For example during draw I do focus for 10 draws on gripping the gun correctly, then I focus on indexing my left hand correctly for 10 draws , then I focus on tracking the frontsight during last part of extension, then I focus on the proper grip tension as I reach extension, etc, etc... and the faster I get, the harder it is to make sure each of those elements are executed correctly. For example, if I ramp up the speed I will certainly try to focus on one of those elements like gripping correctly before pulling it out of the holster, but at speed it's hard to tell if I really executed the technique correctly (in real-time) until I reach full extension and see or feel the final result. Or screw something up midway.

 

Yes you're exactly right. It is extremely difficult to diagnose all faults across complex skills when executed quickly. But like any other skill, your ability to do this will get better with work and it becomes a shockingly effective tool when developed. The skill is your ability to process information quickly from all relevant inputs. 

 

Instead of focusing on the particulars of the movement like the examples you used, I go about it a different way. I develop a detailed picture of what a perfect rep is. Both the feel and the visual references of the flawlessly executed movement are burned into my mind and as such I now have a map to use for every rep. When I make a mistake in a rep, regardless of what that mistake is, I know it instantaneously because the combined tactile and visual references for each mistake are different. You have to train yourself to do this and really pay attention to your practice....it won't happen accidentally. 

 

The difference in our methodology ends up being that you are practicing based on the individual components of each skill while I am practicing based on the skill as a whole. My experience has led me to believe that often the whole movement is greater than the sum of the individual pieces. Complex yet irreducible. Executing the pieces individually is not the same as doing the whole thing.

 

59 minutes ago, impact said:

So I usually practice these things quite slow but very deliberatly. But sometimes nowhere near the speed at which problems would occour. However every now and then I ramp up speed to see where my technique breaks apart and what excatly happens, and try to adress that during slower, more deliberate repetitions. Maybe I should try to speed things up, work out problems near the speed they occour and trust my subconscious more to monitor what I'm doing, instead of working at lower speeds where my conscious works?

 

Again, exactly right. The question I have for you that I think answers your question is how in the world are you going to learn to move fast while moving slow? People like to say that practice should be perfect, but I don't think that's actually a practically useful idea. If you aren't making mistakes in practice you aren't challenging yourself. You must provide a stimulus to cause favorable adaptation. Your body will tend to give you what your actions tell it you want. If you don't practice moving/shooting fast consistently, it will be a disaster when you suddenly demand it during a match. It's just not possible to will it into being.

 

It's not that you should trust your subconscious in practice necessarily. You should definitely rely on your subconscious to execute the skill, but you need to be open and tuned in to what you see and feel while your subconscious is executing the skill. Then make your adjustments on the fly to make the next rep look closer like the map of your perfect rep.

 

An immutable law of training in all endeavors is that your training stimulus MUST EXCEED anything that you could potentially see on game day. If it does not, you are all but guaranteed to fail on game day. My match pace tends to be 10% - 20% slower than my average practice pace. Not because I'm trying to go slower, but because I'm demanding more refined information processing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jake Di Vita said:

Again, exactly right. The question I have for you that I think answers your question is how in the world are you going to learn to move fast while moving slow?

 

Thanks for your helpful advice. I guess what my understanding of the process was like, is that by doing slow and deliberate repetitions over and over again I kind of "explained" my body/mind what I would exactly want him/it to do. As I ramped up the speed and started to identify errors, I tried to analyze what where the origins and how to finetune my technique to combat that. Ramping up the speed from "deliberate practice speed" then usually worked out pretty well within certain range, that was well above practice speed. As things started to fall aprat I thought I'd just need to get in more repetitions and more precise instructions like for example instead of "just grip it" something more like "start indexing with thumb here, feel the thumb pressed parallel to the frame here, push until certain amount of pressure underneath beavertail, wrap around middlefinger underneath trigger guard until first digit is pressed against flat on frame, feel thumb and first digit of middlefinger beeing pressed against same plane on the grip, creating a reference for pushing out the gun in a certain direction towards target later, create tension from thumb to middlefinger but leave triggerfinger relaxed in between, wrap around rest of fingers as starting to pull out gun,....... etc.. you get the idea.

So I thought that problems during speeding up were more a problem of too vague instructions to my mind/body on how to perform certain movements. Problems that I could easily fix during slow practice, since I knew what I would want to end up with, but things that were to hard to track or adjust in real time as I increased speed.

In matches I always tried to not focus on speed as much as possible (easier said than done) and usually ended up naturally with performing at a speed way above deliberate training speed with good results. Sometimes also above what I thought I would be capable of. Especially when watching footage of me shooting afterwards.

 

But again, thanks for your input. I will definately keep your advice in mind and try it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Digging up a necro post, but this may be helpful.

 

My Gen 5 G19 (2nd version with magwell cut out, but properly finished frame) was hitting ~4" left at 15 yards. I drifted the rear sight to rectify the issue, but don't notice it when shooting. When I was cleaning the gun months later I noticed inconsistent wear on the barrel and slide. I inspected a bit closer and saw that the slide had been drilled a little to the left of center, causing the barrel to point left. It's a bummer, but I'm happy with how it shoots. 

 

Drifted sight:

 

 

0.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This concept fixed my left shooting issue.  Starts at 3:29 for our topic about trigger control.  Small little stuff like this in dry fire makes live fire results even more killer!  Good luck.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/5/2018 at 10:12 PM, Drpparker95 said:

I have the factory adjustable rear sight the windage screw won't turn more than about a quarter turn and it doesnt look as if the sight is moving.

 

Is it possible that you're trying to move the sight further to the left and it's already maxed out?

 

That would explain both your problems.

 

Pro tip: the rear sight is moved in the direction that you want to move POI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It all boils down to the design of the firearm. The 1911 has a better trigger because when you pull the trigger the force is distributed on the trigger bow surrounding the fram. Glock trigger has on the right side only. Bear in mind when you pull the glock trigger it is unbalanced so be mindfull to pull and really pull straight to the rear so that the force will only be to the rear.14abeac2a2ff34cf7abf4b25b2854bd5.jpge94535a7fbb84fdb7c8e1da50a5f5858.jpg

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, neverske said:

It all boils down to the design of the firearm. The 1911 has a better trigger because when you pull the trigger the force is distributed on the trigger bow surrounding the fram. Glock trigger has on the right side only. Bear in mind when you pull the glock trigger it is unbalanced so be mindfull to pull and really pull straight to the rear so that the force will only be to the rear.14abeac2a2ff34cf7abf4b25b2854bd5.jpge94535a7fbb84fdb7c8e1da50a5f5858.jpg

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk
 

 

Unpossible

GLOCK_Perfection.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2018 at 12:04 AM, MemphisMechanic said:

All Glocks shoot left.

 

For the first year. 

 

Over time they astonishingly enough begin to shoot closer and closer to dead center.

 

This is a tongue-in-cheek reference to your consistent trigger press issue with the larger grip and stouter recoil of the .40, which will slowly go away with routine practice.

Some Glocks shoot right also. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Mine did.
 
Lefthanded shooter.
Lol....weird how that works. It took me forever to learn to shoot my glock straight. Then I has to drift my sight back center

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Appreciate all the aforementioned information. I too was very frustrated with the model 34 shooting left...something i never experienced before in a wide variety of other pistols.

I continually  and cautiously moved the rear sight to accommodate this phenomenon and tried to accept the eccentric location of the rear sight.

 

Now, a few years later, the sight is pretty close back to center.

 

I didn't consciously alter my grip or trigger press, the only modification i made, which i doubt had much of any impact was installing a heavier/thicker (easier to engage) slide lock. 

 

I have no idea what changed.... but it seems to shoot very well now?

Edited by wanttolearn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there a question here?

There are lots of reasons why it may shoot left, but odds are it’s the shooter. Perhaps his sight has been drifted. Perhaps yours needs drifted. 99% or new shooters shoot Glocks left. Just a fact of the matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That alone points to “Pistol” not necessarily “Person”.

I conducted an experiment with two (2) Glock 43 pistols.

One shot 3” left of POA at 5 yards/ offhand and from ransom rest.

The other one shot 1” left of POA offhand and from a rest.

So...

(1) I switched upper assemblies

(2) I switched only barrels.

(2) I switched only the slides.

The problem followed the lower assembly.

I assume it is the locking blocks.

Wherever the rear sights are drifted when the pistol is brand spanking New is where they NEED to be to be point of aim: point of impact.

I used to mechanically center them and then scratch my head.

I now know so I hand select them based upon where the rear sight is located in the dovetail.

I’ve found Gen 5 triggers to be remarkably consistent so it’s less critical compared to, say, Gen 3 and, to some extent. Gen 4 triggers.

Sold that left-shooting pistol with full disclosure to a guy who was adamant it was me. I was glad as Hell to rod myself of that craptastic plastic and began paying much closer attention to such things as the position of the
Rear Sight in the dovetail.

I have planned on doing another experiment with purchased locking blocks to see what differences they may make (essentially checking dimensional tolerances or variability) but it would require much more equipment and effort than I’m willing to invest and it’s not MY problem; it’s Glock’s problem.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/23/2019 at 5:58 PM, Chui said:


That alone points to “Pistol” not necessarily “Person”.

I conducted an experiment with two (2) Glock 43 pistols.

One shot 3” left of POA at 5 yards/ offhand and from ransom rest.

The other one shot 1” left of POA offhand and from a rest.

So...

(1) I switched upper assemblies

(2) I switched only barrels.

(2) I switched only the slides.

The problem followed the lower assembly.

I assume it is the locking blocks.

Wherever the rear sights are drifted when the pistol is brand spanking New is where they NEED to be to be point of aim: point of impact.

I used to mechanically center them and then scratch my head.

I now know so I hand select them based upon where the rear sight is located in the dovetail.

I’ve found Gen 5 triggers to be remarkably consistent so it’s less critical compared to, say, Gen 3 and, to some extent. Gen 4 triggers.

Sold that left-shooting pistol with full disclosure to a guy who was adamant it was me. I was glad as Hell to rod myself of that craptastic plastic and began paying much closer attention to such things as the position of the
Rear Sight in the dovetail.

I have planned on doing another experiment with purchased locking blocks to see what differences they may make (essentially checking dimensional tolerances or variability) but it would require much more equipment and effort than I’m willing to invest and it’s not MY problem; it’s Glock’s problem.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like we have an engineer weighing in on the issue. I like the root cause discovery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would wait for independent replication on another pair of Glocks before calling the root cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a new shooter, my glock was shooting all over.. flinching, anticipating the bang , yanking..

After about 3k dryfire's I started grouping, low left consistently.. asked some other shooters at the range for help, shot thier 1911s.. all center groups.. they took my glock, hammerd the rear sight to the right , and now im grouping in point of aim area.. after another 2k dryfire's im doing very well for myself with a glock.. last month was my 5k + dryfire .. I do minimum 50 a day.. everyday.. sometimes more, I dont count after 50 with a shot timer.. now when I shot a 1911.. money.. Cheers!. Still haven't joind USPSA yet, my county just got a club last winter.. im getting gear together.. cheers 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont understand the problem with glocks. For simple accuracy the trigger is great. Every pull is a kind of surprise break. Its like a DAO Trigger(well it is), only much shorter and smoother, because partly cocked. 

You just have to move it like a DAO Trigger. Don´t slap it, just increase the force in your finger slowly till it breaks, at least for group shooting. If you do that right and the gun still shoots left, drift the sights.

In my eyes it´s the much harder part to move the trigger very fast and stay accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/23/2019 at 6:58 PM, Chui said:


That alone points to “Pistol” not necessarily “Person”.

I conducted an experiment with two (2) Glock 43 pistols.

One shot 3” left of POA at 5 yards/ offhand and from ransom rest.

The other one shot 1” left of POA offhand and from a rest.

So...

(1) I switched upper assemblies

(2) I switched only barrels.

(2) I switched only the slides.

The problem followed the lower assembly.

I assume it is the locking blocks.

Wherever the rear sights are drifted when the pistol is brand spanking New is where they NEED to be to be point of aim: point of impact.

I used to mechanically center them and then scratch my head.

I now know so I hand select them based upon where the rear sight is located in the dovetail.

I’ve found Gen 5 triggers to be remarkably consistent so it’s less critical compared to, say, Gen 3 and, to some extent. Gen 4 triggers.

Sold that left-shooting pistol with full disclosure to a guy who was adamant it was me. I was glad as Hell to rod myself of that craptastic plastic and began paying much closer attention to such things as the position of the
Rear Sight in the dovetail.

I have planned on doing another experiment with purchased locking blocks to see what differences they may make (essentially checking dimensional tolerances or variability) but it would require much more equipment and effort than I’m willing to invest and it’s not MY problem; it’s Glock’s problem.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am going through the same process right now with a Glock 22 that shoots way left.  I shoot all of my 9s and other 40s straight and most other people's Glocks straight but this one is definitely off and low round count to boot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
I am going through the same process right now with a Glock 22 that shoots way left.  I shoot all of my 9s and other 40s straight and most other people's Glocks straight but this one is definitely off and low round count to boot. 

How were the OEM sights aligned?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...