45 cases buckling when seating Bullet is seated

[LilTMoney]

I am having some trouble with some 45 shells not chambering. They have a very small and barely noticable buckle in the case where the bullet is seated that is preventing it seating fulling into the barrel. The puzzling thing is its not all bullets? I have provided a picture of the bullets i am using and the diameter and length of each. The round nose, (2nd from left ), and the hollow point (far right) i have no issues and drop perfect in the barrel everytime. The other 2 will not at all. Any help or insight will be very appreciated. Thanks,

Troy 

[DsWright]

do you seat and crimp as separate steps?  Usually that is a sign that the bullet started crimping before it was fully seated.  every bullet type will require a full reset of your crimp/seater die if you are doing both in the same step.

[zzt]

I use separate seating and crimping dies for that very reason.  Even so, if a particular case is longer or shorter than average, you may still have a crimping problem.

[LilTMoney]

I have a seperate factory crimp die, but normally just do a crimp/seat at the same time. I normally do reset the die for each different bullet. I have tried numerous things, but for some reason there are issues with just those 2 particular bullets. Its just really odd

 

[Steve RA]

Don't use those two bullet styles.

[DsWright]

7 hours ago, LilTMoney said:

I have a seperate factory crimp die, but normally just do a crimp/seat at the same time. I normally do reset the die for each different bullet. I have tried numerous things, but for some reason there are issues with just those 2 particular bullets. Its just really odd

 

looking closer at the tips of those bullets, i would revist your die setup, all of those bullets show signs of excessive pressure applied... I.e. the bullet profile shouldn't be changed or rounded by the seater stem.  Back your seat/crimp die out several turns so it doesn't crimp at all, then adjust the seater down to correct OAL you want and see what happens.  I suspect your issues will no longer be.  Then you can try again to get your setup correct to do both operations.  

 

If you have a FCD, i see no reason to seat/crimp in same step, just causes headaches IMO.

 

[LilTMoney]

12 minutes ago, DsWright said:

looking closer at the tips of those bullets, i would revist your die setup, all of those bullets show signs of excessive pressure applied... I.e. the bullet profile shouldn't be changed or rounded by the seater stem.  Back your seat/crimp die out several turns so it doesn't crimp at all, then adjust the seater down to correct OAL you want and see what happens.  I suspect your issues will no longer be.  Then you can try again to get your setup correct to do both operations.  

 

If you have a FCD, i see no reason to seat/crimp in same step, just causes headaches IMO.

 

Thanks alot, i will give that a try. 

[USSR]

FWIW, I tell my students to seat and crimp in separate operations when dealing with autoloader rounds.   You're asking a lot of a pistol cartridge in transitioning from the magazine to the chamber, so cartridge dimensions are much more critical than in revolver cartridges.

 

Don

[JON]

Are you loading them all to the same overall length?  If so that can be a problem because of the ogive.  You may have to seat the bullet deeper into the case.

 

Jon

[pskys2]

show us a side view of a loaded round with a buckled case.

What is the overall length of each different round?

First issue there are different nose types for seating dies, you will have better luck using the round nose seating stem, looks like you are using a flat nosed version.

If so it could tilt the bullets to one side and buckling the case.

[124gr9mm]

On 3/5/2018 at 4:36 PM, Steve RA said:

Don't use those two bullet styles.

 

 

While the problem-solver in me bristles at "giving up", the practical side of me would win out and I'd follow the advice above.

If I have options available that are successful I'd forget that those two even exist.

[tires2burn]

How can you seat and crimp at the same time if your brass isn't trimmed to length.

[wgj3]

5 minutes ago, tires2burn said:

How can you seat and crimp at the same time if your brass isn't trimmed to length.

Really...?

 

It's a pistol round. We don't "trim" 9mm, .40, .45 cases. Set the seat/crimp to where it achieves something close to what you want on most rounds and know that there may be a few with a little extra crimp and a few others with a little less depending on case length, neck thickness, etc.

[tires2burn]

7 minutes ago, wgj3 said:

Really...?

 

It's a pistol round. We don't "trim" 9mm, .40, .45 cases. Set the seat/crimp to where it achieves something close to what you want on most rounds and know that there may be a few with a little extra crimp and a few others with a little less depending on case length, neck thickness, etc.

I use a crimp die for my pistol rounds. I get consistent crimps that way and only take out the bell. The seat/crimp die would give you some over crimped & some under crimped I think.

[Steve RA]

If you only use one brand of brass for each caliber it will go a long way toward giving you more similar cartridge case length.

[tires2burn]

I understand that but I use range brass and I'd rather be shooting than sorting.

[mont1120]

Are you positive it is not the actual shape of the bullet that is causing it not to seat correctly? I wonder if you try and shorten up the ones that will not seat in the barrel that does not solve the issue. I have always had problems with seating the Berry's round nose in my Kimber, but the MG's and Blue Bullets fit perfect at the same OAL.

 

Each barrel is cut a bit differently between manufacturers, so give that a try first. 

[Steve RA]

To put it in simple terms,  the two center bullets "get fatter" closer to the nose of the bullet than the other two do.  They would need to be seated deeper into the case so they don't hit the throat of the barrel.

[tires2burn]

7 hours ago, Steve RA said:

To put it in simple terms,  the two center bullets "get fatter" closer to the nose of the bullet than the other two do.  They would need to be seated deeper into the case so they don't hit the throat of the barrel.

I understood the bulge is a issue before it gets to the barrel according to the first post..

[cowboy85306]

On 3/9/2018 at 7:33 AM, JON said:

Are you loading them all to the same overall length?  If so that can be a problem because of the ogive.  You may have to seat the bullet deeper into the case.

 

Jon

Along those lines- I have such a problem when loading .38 Specials using MIXED HEADSTAMPED brass. The problem there being the case lengths are all over the place, and when the crimp is just fine for the short ones, the longer cases buckle. In autoloaders, not as big a problem by using taper crimp,  and by ( as noted by several others ) , crimp as a separate step after bullet seating, though the result of finding a "happy" medium is that the short ones get somewhat less crimp ( and less bullet  to case neck tension ), and the longer cases, of course, get more. To avoid most of the problem, separate your brass and adjust dies accordingly.

[Absocold]

Pull the seat/crimp die and check the part that contacts the nose of the bullet for debris or a build-up of wax/lube. Bullets being pushed down off center is the most common cause of bullet-bulged brass. Also make sure you're giving the case mouth enough flare, 45acp is bad about not wanting the bullet shoved in while the neck is too tight.

[Jakobi]

Seat and crimp as separate steps.

[Absocold]

Fine.

 

Pull the seat die and check the part that contacts the nose of the bullet for debris or a build-up of wax/lube. Bullets being pushed down off center is the most common cause of bullet-bulged brass. Also make sure you're giving the case mouth enough flare, 45acp is bad about not wanting the bullet shoved in while the neck is too tight.