SC Rules too Complicated?

[stick]

10 minutes ago, ZackJones said:

 

We are rolling out an endorsement for Steel Challenge but not a dedicated RO certification just for Steel. I'd like to see that because I can't remember the last time I ran a timer at a USPSA handgun match and I doubt I ever will again.

 

Yeah!  I'm with you.  I'm not going to sit for two days for a USPSA RO certification.

[RickT]

4 hours ago, stick said:

Yeah!  I'm with you.  I'm not going to sit for two days for a USPSA RO certification.

+1.  There are folks who mainly shoot SC myself included that would welcome the training, but not at the expense of what I believe is an entire weekend.

[Bkreutz]

4 hours ago, stick said:

Yeah!  I'm with you.  I'm not going to sit for two days for a USPSA RO certification.

 

To get the SC endorsement (or the Multi Gun endorsement) one needs to already have the USPSA RO certification. (or get them both on the same weekend)

[conditionone]

I know a few people who would attend a SC RO class myself included. The same people would not take the time for a two day USPSA RO certification. 

Zack has done a lot for SC and it's appreciated.  A SC RO stand alone certification would complete the SC infrastructure. 

[Scootertheshooter]

I know a few people who would attend a SC RO class myself included. The same people would not take the time for a two day USPSA RO certification. 
Zack has done a lot for SC and it's appreciated.  A SC RO stand alone certification would complete the SC infrastructure. 

Ditto

[ZackJones]

I would encourage everyone to email your area director areaX@uspsa.org (replace X with your area number) and dnroi@uspsa.org and tell them you would like Steel Challenge training to be separated from USPSA Handgun training. I know 4 people that recently completed the RO training and have zero interest in USPSA Handgun matches.

[zzt]

I disagree with you Zack.  While I have no objection to having an SCSA only certification course for those who will only RO SC matches, it should not be the only way to get SCSA certified.  I shoot both USPSA and SCSA.  If I were taking a new RO course, I'd want the SCSA module taught at the end of the USPSA training.   There are simply too few differences to require another day, or a whole separate course just for steel challenge.  BTW, as soon as I can find it online (I looked), I will be taking the online course to get my official SCSA cert.

[stick]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 9:18 AM, conditionone said:

I know a few people who would attend a SC RO class myself included. The same people would not take the time for a two day USPSA RO certification. 

Zack has done a lot for SC and it's appreciated.  A SC RO stand alone certification would complete the SC infrastructure. 

very well said.

count me in

[ZackJones]

18 hours ago, zzt said:

I disagree with you Zack.  While I have no objection to having an SCSA only certification course for those who will only RO SC matches, it should not be the only way to get SCSA certified.  I shoot both USPSA and SCSA.  If I were taking a new RO course, I'd want the SCSA module taught at the end of the USPSA training.   There are simply too few differences to require another day, or a whole separate course just for steel challenge.  BTW, as soon as I can find it online (I looked), I will be taking the online course to get my official SCSA cert.

 

Someone disagreeing with me??? You obviously don't know who I am?! :). You do bring up a good point. For current USPSA RO/CRO adding the endorsement is the way to go. For brand new RO's such as my wife, daughter, brother and his wife, all of whom have zero interest in USPSA handgun RO stuff a separate Steel Challenge only certification makes sense. 

[zzt]

Thanks Zack.

[Thomas H]

9 hours ago, ZackJones said:

For current USPSA RO/CRO adding the endorsement is the way to go. For brand new RO's such as my wife, daughter, brother and his wife, all of whom have zero interest in USPSA handgun RO stuff a separate Steel Challenge only certification makes sense. 

 

Agreed.

That being said---it is still going to be a full-day class.  If you are taking someone without any RO experience (or RO training), then the parts about understanding the rules and the range commands and having the range practice itself is still going to have to happen.

 

People adding an SC endorsement to an existing RO cert already have had the class regarding safety rules, handling rules, division rules, etc.  People who are getting it new....are going to need all that.

 

As such, an "SC RO" certification is still going to be (at least) a day-long class, I'll bet.  Not two, but with range time, it will still take a full day.

[wyliearms]

I just like to pay, show up, shoot the gun I feel like and see where I end up. Rules are rules and I am good with them. Except for the flag and bag rule in PCC. I hate that.

 

Zack, you are doing a GREAT job!

[xpierrat]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:36 AM, zzt said:

I disagree with you Zack.  While I have no objection to having an SCSA only certification course for those who will only RO SC matches, it should not be the only way to get SCSA certified.  I shoot both USPSA and SCSA.  If I were taking a new RO course, I'd want the SCSA module taught at the end of the USPSA training.   There are simply too few differences to require another day, or a whole separate course just for steel challenge.  BTW, as soon as I can find it online (I looked), I will be taking the online course to get my official SCSA cert.

I agree this is the best way ….. to have both stand alone and as a add on at the end of the regular USPSA class with the choice to opt out if you have zero interest in SC.

 

[Andyk]

Our club used to be outlaw SC matches.  We would get 40-50 guns each month.  This year it affiliated with SC and if you don't register by tuesday you ain't shooting.  90 guns every month register.  A few don't show up.  Think it was 86 this month that shot.  Guess the rules aren't to complicated for a bunch of southerners.

[paranoidtruth]

On 4/24/2018 at 12:59 PM, Thomas H said:

I must admit, it interests me when I see people complaining about too many divisions.  What problem exactly are people trying to solve, I wonder?

 

Ok, a response to an old topic, but it's more significant now than it was 18 months ago so I'll give my answer to that question...

 

The current Area 6 match about to run has <= 6 shooters in each of: Revolver, SS, Prod, Limited.  Not a single class in any of those has > 3 shooters.  So what could they possibly do for class awards?  I know not everyone cares about awards, but at a level II or III, that's part of it.  Centerfire pistols are so diluted that maybe 3 matches a year (like the US Steel Shoot) have enough shooters to substantially recognize classes in the individual CFI divisions .  If you're something like A class Production, you're very likely shooting solo in a lot of tier II matches.  I think many would be happy to just have them combined and actually have some people to shoot against in their class.    

I realize everyone could just all voluntarily shoot in limited, but that's just not how it works when you have all the options, has to be officially put in place to work.  Optics, PCC, 22's have taken over, there's not enough CFI shooters remaining to spread out over 4 divisions.  It made more sense when it was primarily a pistol match.  Now it's primarily an optics/rifle match.  How many people want to spend $100 to go to an Area match in B production and shoot against one other B production shooter?  Dilution is not helping at this point, it's actually killing off the CFI pistol divisions because nobody wants to spend the money to enter a division with a total of 4 other shooters at a level II match.  Just save the money at that point and shoot one less division is what's happening.  All of the individual CFI division entries are down 50% from last year (even at the US Steel Shoot).  Combining the CFI divisions is probably the only thing to keep competition alive at this point for us iron-sight pistol shooters.                    

       

[motosapiens]

9 minutes ago, paranoidtruth said:

 

Ok, a response to an old topic, but it's more significant now than it was 18 months ago so I'll give my answer to that question...

 

The current Area 6 match about to run has <= 6 shooters in each of: Revolver, SS, Prod, Limited.  Not a single class in any of those has > 3 shooters.  So what could they possibly do for class awards?  I know not everyone cares about awards, but at a level II or III, that's part of it.  Centerfire pistols are so diluted that maybe 3 matches a year (like the US Steel Shoot) have enough shooters to substantially recognize classes in the individual CFI divisions .  If you're something like A class Production, you're very likely shooting solo in a lot of tier II matches.  I think many would be happy to just have them combined and actually have some people to shoot against in their class.    
       

 

If I cared about this, I would totally agree. I have alwalys shot either an ss gun or production gun in centerfire steel, but I have always registered in limited because that's where the people are and because there is no significant difference between the divisions. I vote for centerfire iron sights and be done with it.

[zzt]

46 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

I think many would be happy to just have them combined and actually have some people to shoot against in their class. 

 

Not me.  I don't give a hoot.  Winning my Class does nothing for me.  What gives me a thrill is being the highest placed pistol shooter in the overall match standings (or second or third).  Yes, I'm behind some PCCO and RFRO shooters, but I'm ahead of others.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm shooting against everyone, not just my Class or Division.

[motosapiens]

19 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Not me.  I don't give a hoot.  Winning my Class does nothing for me.  What gives me a thrill is being the highest placed pistol shooter in the overall match standings (or second or third).  Yes, I'm behind some PCCO and RFRO shooters, but I'm ahead of others.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm shooting against everyone, not just my Class or Division.

quote fail. above.

 

but as long as you are responding to someone else, I will respond to you.... I'm only shooting against other centerfire shooters, and really only other iron sights shooters. maybe that makes me a hider. I'm cool widdat.