SC Rules too Complicated?

[RickT]

My wife and I were considering moving to Oregon (from CA) so I viewed a Northwest shooters forum.  Turns out there are not SCSA affiliated clubs in OR and in a participant in one thread said that they tried mixing in SC with their regular steel shoot but the rules were "too complicated".  The particular reference was to something related to PCC, but it led me to think about the rules based on my modest, primarily Level 1 experience.  The shooting activity, itself, couldn't be simpler and there's no PF to worry about.  It's all down to equipment.  I see more and more folks in CA shooting rimfire and PCC, rimfire being fun/inexpensive and PCC being fun/cool.  (and the rules are pretty darn simple).  So were' left in many cases with a small percentage of the match spread over PROD, SS, CO, LTD and OPN.  And the rules within PROD, for example, are so complicated that they had to open up allowable mods to (seems to me) just about anything.  Why can't we just go to CFPI and CFPO, mods are no holds barred; "regular" holsters in CFPI and anything goes holsters in CFPO?  

 

Competitors who are focused on placings will go with a tricked out Limited gun in CFPI, the the majority are trying to get better and the great attraction of SC is that it is the same week after week, sort of like testing yourself on the same golf course once/month or so.  For me, I don't need a placing to tell me I stunk in a given match and it is not unusual for my wife and myself to be the only SS shooters at a club match.  

[Thomas H]

I know that many people I shoot with are both trying to get better, but are also interested in how well they do in the placings.  As such, the equipment they are using makes a significant difference for most people.

I guess I'm not really convinced that SC rules are "too complicated" because if people don't feel like arguing about Production or anything, they can simply shoot in Limited.  After all, Open and Limited basically (between them) include every other category.  If people want it simpler, those people should shoot Open or Limited.    And the rest of the people who don't find the rules "too complicated" can choose their normal divisions.  After all, if you are shooting a Production gun in USPSA, that tells you exactly what you can do in Steel Challenge.

 

As for fewer people shooting the centerfire calibers, I'm betting that is highly location dependent, though I wouldn't be surprised if the rimfire divisions get bigger over time.  After all, many people who don't have centerfire gear DO have a rimfire gun, which means they can go shoot right now instead of having to buy gear.

 

At our club for local matches, Production is generally the largest division.  At other clubs, it is one of the rimfire ones.  In clubs that allow more than one division, lots of people shoot one rimfire and one centerfire.  It just really varies.

[zzt]

I shoot RFPO and Open.  My open gun is my old Limited gun with a red dot on it.  At the matches I shoot the majority of shooters are shooting 9mm out of something.  The is a lot of rimfire, and an increasing number of PCC shooters.

 

SC rules are not complicated.  They are slightly dumbed down USPSA rules to decrease times. 

[Nimitz]

I agree with your conclusion ... although not for the reasons you stated ....

 

I think SC could benefit significantly from just going to 2 divisions in the center fire match (maybe 3 for revolver) like we do for the other 3 matches ...

 

just open & iron sight divisions;  open is the same as now and the iron sight division would be only irons of course ... get rid of all the silly "equipment based" rules from USPSA since they don't really make that much difference and like we always say - this is SC not USPSA.  Anyone want to really try and argue that because I have a thumb rest or magwell or 22 rds in my mag I'm at some competitive advantage over the guy who doesn't have these things?  I'll even give you the race hostlers vs production style holsters if you want to mandate those although it really doesn't make that much difference.  And before everyone starts jumping up & down that they do go watch any video of Ben Stoeger's draw and you'll see it's sub 1 sec with a lowly production style holster.  Comps & optical sights are about the only things which can provide real advantages.  what's good for the other 3 matches should be good for the center fire match

 

I know the argument is that HQ won't do it because they don't want to lose the revenue from shooters shooting multiple divisions but I'd like to see some actual data from nationals & the WSSC for the last couple of years which show that a significant number of competitors shoot multiple iron sight divisions & if we did away with them those shooters would all go down to just one iron sight gun ....

 

Given that we now have PCC a competitor can shoot 3-4 guns and not shoot 2 iron sight divisions easily. 

[zzt]

There are very few people who only shoot SC and no USPSA.  So if you were to combine divisions, you really should allow everyone to use the same equipment as they do in USPSA.  You are already allowed to put your equipment anywhere on your belt for SC, even in Production, so why not.

 

I don't see why there would have to be a revolver division.  Just optics and irons in center fire, PCC, rimfire pistol and rimfire rifle.  That gives you 8 divisions to shoot in.

 

I RO a lot of SC matches and it is rare to see anyone go to slide lock on a 10-round mag.  About 95% of the time, seven is the max number of rounds used in a string.  Yesterday there was a senior, D class SS shooter on my squad with 8-round mags and bunny fart loads.   He didn't go to slide lock once.  Sometimes when there are SC and USPSA shoots on the same weekend, I'll shoot both with my USPSA open gun.  My times are no better or worse than when I use my limited gun with an optic.  So I don't think there is any particular advantage to any center fire in SC.

 

It doesn't matter to me, because I only own SAO guns, and at 70 I simply cannot see iron sights (even with help) well enough to be competitive.  So whatever gun I'm shooting will be in open, not matter what.

 

 

[ZackJones]

You are already allowed to put your equipment anywhere on your belt for SC, even in Production, so why not.
 

Not all equipment. Mag pouches can go anywhere but holsters follow USPSA rules for positioning for Prod, SS, and CO.

[cferree]

SCSA should have 8 Divisions ONLY.  Long Gun/ Hand Gun; Rim Fire/Center Fire and Optics/Irons.  Any further breakdown could and should be covered as Categories.

 

I've been a USPSA member since 1992, so I'm not taking a shot at USPSA, BUT SCSA is NOT USPSA.  The USPSA President and NROI Director don't understand this.

 

I spent several hours reviewing and documenting questions & comments on the proposed new rules.  After all, they asked for comments.  I knew most, if not all, of what I said would be ignored.  Not only was it ignored, no one had the professionalism to even acknowledge my comments.  I've spoken to several others who emailed comments without any reply from "headquarters".

 

And to continue piling on, to be a SCSA RO, you have to take the USPSA two day RO class; pass the test and then take the SCSA "module".

 

[RickT]

On 4/22/2018 at 1:44 PM, Nimitz said:

I agree with your conclusion ... although not for the reasons you stated ....

 

I think SC could benefit significantly from just going to 2 divisions in the center fire match (maybe 3 for revolver) like we do for the other 3 matches ...

 

just open & iron sight divisions;  open is the same as now and the iron sight division would be only irons of course ... get rid of all the silly "equipment based" rules from USPSA since they don't really make that much difference and like we always say - this is SC not USPSA.  Anyone want to really try and argue that because I have a thumb rest or magwell or 22 rds in my mag I'm at some competitive advantage over the guy who doesn't have these things?  I'll even give you the race hostlers vs production style holsters if you want to mandate those although it really doesn't make that much difference.  And before everyone starts jumping up & down that they do go watch any video of Ben Stoeger's draw and you'll see it's sub 1 sec with a lowly production style holster.  Comps & optical sights are about the only things which can provide real advantages.  what's good for the other 3 matches should be good for the center fire match

 

I know the argument is that HQ won't do it because they don't want to lose the revenue from shooters shooting multiple divisions but I'd like to see some actual data from nationals & the WSSC for the last couple of years which show that a significant number of competitors shoot multiple iron sight divisions & if we did away with them those shooters would all go down to just one iron sight gun ....

 

Given that we now have PCC a competitor can shoot 3-4 guns and not shoot 2 iron sight divisions easily. 

This is more along the lines of my originating post.  While I don't shoot production, I find the list of changes mind boggling as in "How can I turn a production gun into a near-open gun?"  I suppose manufacturer sponsorship has a play in all this,  A soft landing  to eight divisions would be to keep the classification system going for unofficial sub-divisions with the only recognition being your classification: no awards other than perhaps a note of recognition at larger matches?  Declaring a sub-division would be on the honor system.

 

Of course one issue is that  Practiscore would need a tweak,  but I think keeping the classification going in its current form does provide incentives for us hackers. 

[Thomas H]

On 4/22/2018 at 5:40 PM, zzt said:

I RO a lot of SC matches and it is rare to see anyone go to slide lock on a 10-round mag.  About 95% of the time, seven is the max number of rounds used in a string.  Yesterday there was a senior, D class SS shooter on my squad with 8-round mags and bunny fart loads.   He didn't go to slide lock once.  Sometimes when there are SC and USPSA shoots on the same weekend, I'll shoot both with my USPSA open gun.  My times are no better or worse than when I use my limited gun with an optic.  So I don't think there is any particular advantage to any center fire in SC.

 

I see people go to slide lock frequently in SC, particularly on Pendulum and Outer Limits.  (Though I've seen it occur on 5 To Go and Speed Option also.)  Revolver (okay, not slide lock, but empty), Production, and SS---I've seen it happen to all.  Generally at least once per match, and that's just on my squad.

 

Normally occurs to people in C and D classes, but I've seen some B-class folks get too rambunctious once in awhile also.

 

Perhaps your club is just that much better than mine.  But it is true that I just saw it happen at a Level II match---matter of fact, I've seen it happen at every single Level II match I've attended.  Rare compared to the total number of strings shot?  Sure.  However, it still happens often enough that we see it all the time.

 

As for the difference between Open and Irons regarding centerfire:  I'm thinking that the obvious differences in times between the same person shooting both at major matches (ex:  Max, BJ, and KC, Muneki, Jessie, et al here  https://steelchallenge.com/steel-challenge-display-match-results.php?action=match&indx=12772) shows pretty clearly that there is an advantage to some divisions over others in SC in centerfire.

 

I must admit, it interests me when I see people complaining about too many divisions.  What problem exactly are people trying to solve, I wonder?  We still have "main match, rimfire pistol match, rimfire rifle match, and pcc match" for those who like combined stats.  Are people thinking that for some reason people aren't shooting?  Wasn't someone's comment that with multiple divisions people are shooting MORE guns at larger matches?

So....what problem are people trying to fix?

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Thomas H
schools? I meant stats!

[ZackJones]

Some gee whiz numbers regarding competitors shooting multiple centerfire divisions.

2016 WSSC - 46 competitors shot 2 divisions.
2017 WSSC - 54 competitors shot 2 or more divisions.
2017 US Steel Shoot - 55 competitors shot 2 or more. One person shot 5 centerfire divisions.
2018 US Steel Shoot - 50 competitors shot 2 or more divisions.

Counts are limited to centerfire divisions only.

[Thomas H]

20.5% of the people who shot a centerfire pistol division at the Level II match we hosted, shot at least 2 centerfire pistols.

[rowdyb]

As someone who was a single, centerfire pistol shooter at this years US shoot I decided to make a point of shooting 2 or more guns from now on at any SC match I go to from now on.

[Jim Watson]

Doesn't seem complicated to me but it is not my main game. 

One gun is enough, I normally shoot RFPI with my old Model 41. 

[Thomas H]

18 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

Doesn't seem complicated to me but it is not my main game. 

One gun is enough, I normally shoot RFPI with my old Model 41. 

 

Got to admit,  I was surprised at how much pure fun it was to shoot rimfire.

 

Now I'm hooked---which means I like to shoot 6 divisions if I can.  :)  Two centerfire, both rimfire pistol, rifle optics and PCC optics.  (This year it is CO, SS, RFPI, RFPO, RFRO, and PCCO.  Next year.....who knows?  I did Production last year, might go back to that for one of the centerfire divisions.  Or just shoot the same gun in Limited to get a classification there.)

[Hammer002]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:28 PM, Thomas H said:

20.5% of the people who shot a centerfire pistol division at the Level II match we hosted, shot at least 2 centerfire pistols.

 

I could look, but how many shot at least 2 of ANY division?  Thinking it was close to all.

 

i actually like all the divisions for steel challenge.  I also like the fact there is some overlap, I.e. same gun in limited/prod, etc.  There are so many different things that are similar for more trigger time/experience such as shooting 2 rifles.  They compliment each other and allow more pattern practice under match stress.  Then there are vastly different things to conquer such as rifles vs pistols which also break down into from the holster and low ready.  You can really cater to as many similarities or as much diversity as you want.  I’ve now got the open gun (recently debuted at the Great Plains match), so I have a pistol from the holster and RFPO from the low ready that are different, yet compliment each other when shot together.  Then RFRO and PCC shot together.  I think it’s the perfect match for me.  It is possible the multiple divisions are making USPSA pistol matches a little diluted though.

[ZackJones]

22 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

Got to admit,  I was surprised at how much pure fun it was to shoot rimfire.

 

Now I'm hooked---which means I like to shoot 6 divisions if I can.  :)  Two centerfire, both rimfire pistol, rifle optics and PCC optics.  (This year it is CO, SS, RFPI, RFPO, RFRO, and PCCO.  Next year.....who knows?  I did Production last year, might go back to that for one of the centerfire divisions.  Or just shoot the same gun in Limited to get a classification there.)

 

I'm not quite up to 6 but I'd like to shoot 5 if possible: RFRO/RFRI/PCCO/PCCI and RFPO. 

 

[ZackJones]

On 4/23/2018 at 1:34 PM, cferree said:

I spent several hours reviewing and documenting questions & comments on the proposed new rules.  After all, they asked for comments.  I knew most, if not all, of what I said would be ignored.  Not only was it ignored, no one had the professionalism to even acknowledge my comments.  I've spoken to several others who emailed comments without any reply from "headquarters".

 

And to continue piling on, to be a SCSA RO, you have to take the USPSA two day RO class; pass the test and then take the SCSA "module".

 

 

Your comment didn't sit well with me so I went back though my emails this morning and found  your email to scsarules and to me that you sent on 7/26/17.

 

2.2 – Please consider removing the USPSA references from the SCSA rule book.  I currently shoot SCSA in the SE.  Typically 1/3 to 1/2 of the competitors do not shoot USPSA.  In many cases, they don’t shoot any discipline other than SCSA.  SCSA should be a standalone shooting discipline.   --Adopted. We now have our own appendix for each division and don't refer to USPSA rules.   3.1.2 – See I1 - I13 below   --Same as above.   A4.2 – I understand why comps/breaks should be allowed in PCCI.  I don’t think they should be allowed in RFRI.   --These are permitted in RFRI so that timers can pick up the shots.   A5.1 – SCSA Open holster position shouldn’t have any restrictions.   --Adopted See H1, #10.   A5.6 – Carry Optics (omitted?)   --Added as H6.   E1 – Level 1 matches should be allowed to set the targets defined heights.  Level 2 & 3 should require the target either be set at a height of 5’ from the shooters box via a level (laser or level/transit) or set at a consistent height(s) based on the target nearest to the shooting box.   --Clarification added to E2.   E2 – Glad to this was clarified.  This will help matches have consistent setups.   Target Clarification: On several occasions I’ve read (not in a rule book) and/or  been told that the targets that attach to the stand via slot in the target face and “hook” on the target cap are not allowed/approved targets.  Is this true?  I can’t find any mention in the rule book regarding how the targets are attached to the vertical post.   -This was not clarified but it's not true. "Hook" style targets are permitted.   F – I know of several clubs, one in GA, that uses the name Steel Challenge and even links to the SCSA web site for their rules.  How is SCSA management going to address clubs that represent themselves as SCSA clubs, but aren’t affiliated?   --I only know of one and they have since affiliated. If you know of others, please email me details.   I1-I13 – Please consider creating separate Appendices for each Division.  It would be a simple copy and paste from the USPSA rule book and copy, paste and revise of I2 thru I4.   --Adopted.   So I will agree that we dropped the ball on thanking you for your input but you statement is wrong in that they were ignored. Going forward if you, or anyone else reading this post have a problem/suggestion/feedback regarding Steel Challenge email me directly at zack@uspsa.org.

 

 

 

 

[cferree]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:37 AM, ZackJones said:

 

Your comment didn't sit well with me so I went back though my emails this morning and found  your email to scsarules and to me that you sent on 7/26/17.

 

2.2 – Please consider removing the USPSA references from the SCSA rule book.  I currently shoot SCSA in the SE.  Typically 1/3 to 1/2 of the competitors do not shoot USPSA.  In many cases, they don’t shoot any discipline other than SCSA.  SCSA should be a standalone shooting discipline.   --Adopted. We now have our own appendix for each division and don't refer to USPSA rules.   3.1.2 – See I1 - I13 below   --Same as above.   A4.2 – I understand why comps/breaks should be allowed in PCCI.  I don’t think they should be allowed in RFRI.   --These are permitted in RFRI so that timers can pick up the shots.   A5.1 – SCSA Open holster position shouldn’t have any restrictions.   --Adopted See H1, #10.   A5.6 – Carry Optics (omitted?)   --Added as H6.   E1 – Level 1 matches should be allowed to set the targets defined heights.  Level 2 & 3 should require the target either be set at a height of 5’ from the shooters box via a level (laser or level/transit) or set at a consistent height(s) based on the target nearest to the shooting box.   --Clarification added to E2.   E2 – Glad to this was clarified.  This will help matches have consistent setups.   Target Clarification: On several occasions I’ve read (not in a rule book) and/or  been told that the targets that attach to the stand via slot in the target face and “hook” on the target cap are not allowed/approved targets.  Is this true?  I can’t find any mention in the rule book regarding how the targets are attached to the vertical post.   -This was not clarified but it's not true. "Hook" style targets are permitted.   F – I know of several clubs, one in GA, that uses the name Steel Challenge and even links to the SCSA web site for their rules.  How is SCSA management going to address clubs that represent themselves as SCSA clubs, but aren’t affiliated?   --I only know of one and they have since affiliated. If you know of others, please email me details.   I1-I13 – Please consider creating separate Appendices for each Division.  It would be a simple copy and paste from the USPSA rule book and copy, paste and revise of I2 thru I4.   --Adopted.   So I will agree that we dropped the ball on thanking you for your input but you statement is wrong in that they were ignored. Going forward if you, or anyone else reading this post have a problem/suggestion/feedback regarding Steel Challenge email me directly at zack@uspsa.org.

 

 

 

 

 

Zack,

The way SCSA is being managed doesn't sit well with me.  

There are still multiple references to USPSA (most dealing with firearm Divisions) in the SCSA rules.  SCSA is not USPSA.  

The only way for a SCSA competitor to become an RO is to become a USPSA RO and then take the SCSA module.  

 

I'll send you an email with the contact info for the other club in NE GA that advertises SCSA matches, but is not an affiliated club.

 

 

[wgj3]

On 4/27/2018 at 7:37 AM, ZackJones said:

 

Your comment didn't sit well with me so I went back though my emails this morning and found  your email to scsarules and to me that you sent on 7/26/17.

 

2.2 – Please consider removing the USPSA references from the SCSA rule book.  I currently shoot SCSA in the SE.  Typically 1/3 to 1/2 of the competitors do not shoot USPSA.  In many cases, they don’t shoot any discipline other than SCSA.  SCSA should be a standalone shooting discipline.   --Adopted. We now have our own appendix for each division and don't refer to USPSA rules.   3.1.2 – See I1 - I13 below   --Same as above.   A4.2 – I understand why comps/breaks should be allowed in PCCI.  I don’t think they should be allowed in RFRI.   --These are permitted in RFRI so that timers can pick up the shots.   A5.1 – SCSA Open holster position shouldn’t have any restrictions.   --Adopted See H1, #10.   A5.6 – Carry Optics (omitted?)   --Added as H6.   E1 – Level 1 matches should be allowed to set the targets defined heights.  Level 2 & 3 should require the target either be set at a height of 5’ from the shooters box via a level (laser or level/transit) or set at a consistent height(s) based on the target nearest to the shooting box.   --Clarification added to E2.   E2 – Glad to this was clarified.  This will help matches have consistent setups.   Target Clarification: On several occasions I’ve read (not in a rule book) and/or  been told that the targets that attach to the stand via slot in the target face and “hook” on the target cap are not allowed/approved targets.  Is this true?  I can’t find any mention in the rule book regarding how the targets are attached to the vertical post.   -This was not clarified but it's not true. "Hook" style targets are permitted.   F – I know of several clubs, one in GA, that uses the name Steel Challenge and even links to the SCSA web site for their rules.  How is SCSA management going to address clubs that represent themselves as SCSA clubs, but aren’t affiliated?   --I only know of one and they have since affiliated. If you know of others, please email me details.   I1-I13 – Please consider creating separate Appendices for each Division.  It would be a simple copy and paste from the USPSA rule book and copy, paste and revise of I2 thru I4.   --Adopted.   So I will agree that we dropped the ball on thanking you for your input but you statement is wrong in that they were ignored. Going forward if you, or anyone else reading this post have a problem/suggestion/feedback regarding Steel Challenge email me directly at zack@uspsa.org.

 

 

 

 

 

Zack,

 

I think you're killin' it! I know its not just you making it happen. Very well done. I know that the SC matches around me in A6 have grown tremendously over the past year or so. Never gonna make everybody happy all the time.

[Scootertheshooter]

Zack
I’m happy [emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pepelepew]

The reason there is no Steel Challenge matches in Oregon is there is no benefits to being affiliated with Steel Challenge for clubs and most local steel match competitors don't care if it is affiliated with Steel Challenge. There is very few USPSA shooters in Oregon that regularly shoot steel matches. Most local steel competitors only shoot steel matches.

 

Below is the text from my Northwest Firearms forum post you referenced. Since posting that, I talked with Steel Challenge about getting classified. After my conversation with them I was seriously considering it. However, they were going to send me the application and never did. If they are not really serious in promoting Steel Challenge and my shooters are not interested in affiliating, there is no reason to have Steel Challenge matches. 

 

 

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/oregon-steel-match-questions.262865/#post-1876648

" Is there any steel matches in Oregon affiliated with Steel Challenge?

What are the benefits to a shooter at Steel Challenge matches compared to independent Steel matches?

What are the benefits to a club to be affiliated with Steel Challenge?

I have been contacted by several USPSA competitors interested in getting classified at Steel Challenge. I may consider affiliating ARPC's Speed Steel match. I considered this over a year ago and only had support from 5% of the attendees and I felt the Steel Challenge rules were horrible. Since then, Steel Challenge has developed a classification system and a new rule book.

A major hurdle to affiliation with Steel Challenge is submitting classification scores and payments. Unless there is enough interest in classification, the extra effort and cost is wasted. The cost also needs to be passed down to all competitors of the match or taken from current match fees.

A second issue is the new rule book, it is much better but has some problems. It looks like a cut and paste from USPSA with random changes from USPSA. There is recommendations mixed in with rules. It also has a similar problems USPSA is having on how to handle PCC firearms. I have seen shooters and RO's don't know what to do most of the time with PCC after a stage run in USPSA. There is no consistency to how practical rifle competitions handle rifle safety. Currently all rifles must be cased at ARPC Speed Steel."

 

 

[Thomas H]

12 hours ago, Pepelepew said:

The reason there is no Steel Challenge matches in Oregon is there is no benefits to being affiliated with Steel Challenge for clubs and most local steel match competitors don't care if it is affiliated with Steel Challenge. There is very few USPSA shooters in Oregon that regularly shoot steel matches. Most local steel competitors only shoot steel matches.

 

Below is the text from my Northwest Firearms forum post you referenced. Since posting that, I talked with Steel Challenge about getting classified. After my conversation with them I was seriously considering it. However, they were going to send me the application and never did. If they are not really serious in promoting Steel Challenge and my shooters are not interested in affiliating, there is no reason to have Steel Challenge matches.  

 

Um...I don't understand something here.  Did you mean classified in a division (or divisions) as a SCSA member, or were you talking about club affiliation?

 

Joining SCSA as an individual member is as simple as going to the USPSA website and getting a membership.  (Which gets you both USPSA and SCSA memberships.  And an associate membership only costs $25.)  People who are USPSA members already have a SCSA membership, so literally nothing needs to be done there, other than shooting official stages at an affiliated club.

 

Having a club affiliate with SC is as simple as going to the SC website, going to the "Club Resources" section, and clicking on the "New SCSA Club Application" link, filling it out, and sending it in.  https://steelchallenge.com/New SCSA Club Application.pdf

 

In either case----both are really simple to do, can be done directly from the website, and don't require waiting for anything.   I mean---did you look at the website?

 

As for "serious about promoting Steel Challenge"----given the large increase in affiliated clubs, classifications, and shooter numbers at matches, I'd say they are pretty serious. 

If your shooters aren't interested in Steel Challenge, classifications, or getting to shoot larger SC matches, that's a different issue, obviously.  Odd that people in your area who shoot USPSA don't shoot steel, though---pretty much everywhere else, there is a HUGE amount of crossover.   Perhaps if people got to shoot actual official SC matches, you'd get more.  (The vast majority of the people who shoot steel in our area, and who came to our Level II SC match, were members of SCSA/USPSA.)

[stick]

@ZackJones  Is their talk of having a dedicated and separate RO certification for SCSA?

[ZackJones]

On 5/9/2018 at 10:54 PM, Pepelepew said:

The reason there is no Steel Challenge matches in Oregon is there is no benefits to being affiliated with Steel Challenge for clubs and most local steel match competitors don't care if it is affiliated with Steel Challenge. There is very few USPSA shooters in Oregon that regularly shoot steel matches. Most local steel competitors only shoot steel matches.

 

Below is the text from my Northwest Firearms forum post you referenced. Since posting that, I talked with Steel Challenge about getting classified. After my conversation with them I was seriously considering it. However, they were going to send me the application and never did. If they are not really serious in promoting Steel Challenge and my shooters are not interested in affiliating, there is no reason to have Steel Challenge matches. 

 

A second issue is the new rule book, it is much better but has some problems. It looks like a cut and paste from USPSA with random changes from USPSA. There is recommendations mixed in with rules. It also has a similar problems USPSA is having on how to handle PCC firearms. I have seen shooters and RO's don't know what to do most of the time with PCC after a stage run in USPSA. There is no consistency to how practical rifle competitions handle rifle safety. Currently all rifles must be cased at ARPC Speed Steel."

 

 

 

Who, specifically, at USPSA HQ did you talk to that didn't provide you with the affiliation paperwork? Either (1) email me directly zack@uspsa.org and I'll send it to you or (2) download it from the SCSA web site (https://steelchallenge.com/steel-challenge-ClubResources-Home.php) Download the Club Affiliation Application.

 

Regarding PCC handling requirements please send your specific concerns to dnroi@uspsa.org or to me and we'll get them addressed. 

 

Lastly, if the clubs are running outlaw matches that's fine. I hope they aren't calling it "Steel Challenge" match nor using any of our 8 stages nor using our poor rule set. I'm sure they have their own set of rules they follow, right?

 

 

 

[ZackJones]

On 5/11/2018 at 5:48 AM, stick said:

@ZackJones  Is their talk of having a dedicated and separate RO certification for SCSA?

 

We are rolling out an endorsement for Steel Challenge but not a dedicated RO certification just for Steel. I'd like to see that because I can't remember the last time I ran a timer at a USPSA handgun match and I doubt I ever will again.