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Gviz

Need help setup 650 toolhead for 9mm case prep.

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So my 650 has 5 stations and would like to process 9mm brass to minimize hang ups on long reloading sessions. I sometimes have problems seating the primer. Will a swage on the 2nd station work?

 

I have read somewhere on BE forums that using a lee universal decaper , then swage, then pass on a Dillon sizer and decaper less the rod , followed by a lee u die without the rod. But that was on a 1050. I would like to know if it’s doable on a 650?

 

I’ve been scanning the forums and couldn’t find any information on 650 users that do this. Thanks in advance!

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I’m still not sure I would swage on a 650. I just don’t think it’s wise since last I knew Dillon won’t warranty anything if you break it? But there are some new doodads out there to do it.

 As far as all those dies you were talking about, good lord! I sort 9mm brass  y headstamp since there is a lot of junk 9mm brass. Once I get a box full of crimped stuff I put a tool head with just a Dillon sizer die in it and size/decap all of it in a few short minutes. Then I just team the pockets with a drill and reamer. After that I go back to normal toolhead with a Udie and load it up.

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23 minutes ago, Gviz said:

I have read somewhere on BE forums that using a lee universal decaper , then swage, then pass on a Dillon sizer and decaper less the rod , followed by a lee u die without the rod. But that was on a 1050. I would like to know if it’s doable on a 650?

Like Sarge said, "good Lord!". That seems like more work than it is worth for high volume gamer-type loads.  I just sort by headstamp and run my 650 with Dillon dies except for a Redding seating die. (I use to run a Lee FCD but that wasn't working with coated bullets.) Problems are so uncommon I just toss any bad brass that comes along or put problem rounds aside for later analysis. Blow out the press with compressed air after each loading session.

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17 minutes ago, lgh said:

Like Sarge said, "good Lord!". That seems like more work than it is worth for high volume gamer-type loads.  I just sort by headstamp and run my 650 with Dillon dies except for a Redding seating die. (I use to run a Lee FCD but that wasn't working with coated bullets.) Problems are so uncommon I just toss any bad brass that comes along or put problem rounds aside for later analysis. Blow out the press with compressed air after each loading session.

Yeah, it didn't even sound fun at all. lol

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Thanks for the heads up regarding warranty sarge. Looks like it’s going to be saving up for a 1050after all... 

Edited by Gviz

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I agree with sorting the brass, not sure where you got yours but I bought a ton online that was suppose to be well sorted.  I found 10+ .380s and then of course look out for those odd pieces of brass that look like they have a shelf in them.  Lots of folks on here say they are not good, so I tossed those out too.  I have not had any issues once I did that.  I am using CCI primers.  

If you reloading more than 20K rounds, then I suppose the 1050 is the way to go.  I have not reached that level and the 650 works fine for me

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I am trying to think up a way to save any time in making 9mm ammo.
If you have a case feeder. you will not save anything by any attempt to process the cases through the casefeeder twice.
 
sort cases for headstamp?  that should include tossing out crimped in addition to the usual cases of poor repute.

Find a way to automate that and you may have a money maker...

sort and load is about as fast as it gets.

miranda

Edited by Miranda
typo

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Last year I reloaded 25k of 9mm and 9k of 40sw

 

still undecided what to do. Should I  Get another 650 or move up to a 1050 for 9minor and major reloading... I’m still trying to figure out how to make long sessions bug free... after sorting taking out 380 and long 19x... brass and the occasional 40sw out. then wet tumbling and sorting again I still get some brass that has a ledge on the bottom half of the brass.

 

My problem is some of the brass I picked up have stubborn primers they are hard to push out and some are hard to stick in primers. I’ve only reloaded for a year so still much to learn thanks for all the input very much appreciated keep them coming I want to get to decide what is the most logical and stress free process I’m not ready to throw mucho $$$ for processing... 

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Is the 9mm brass you are having problems with crimped primers? If that is the case you can either sort them out before dropping them in the case feeder or pick them out of the shell plate when you run into them. 

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It is hard to hand out solid advice on a subject where you have given a lot of thought
and have not acted on the decisions.

for me money is a driving decision maker.
I love gizmos and machinery.   the major reason I don''t have a 1050
or an automated ammo assembly machine is that I feel I have better things to do with my coin.


You may want to keep in mind  what you have as your reasons for getting any reloading press.
access to ammo tailored to weapons...
access to lowcost ammo...
save lots of time making ammo for your guns....
and maybe a combo of all that.  much as is my reasoning.

 

A 650 is about as fast as you are going to get before you start adding automations.

so while you may want faster(who doesn't?) consider how much ammo you need.
in less than an two hours you will consume a pound of powder a 1k brick of primers
and a box of bullets.... or more....

how long are you going to take to send all those caps down range?

 

 

:-D all that said,
get the 1050 and share photos?
you don't need a reason to get a better press.

miranda

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I am sure this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpkUnUqMo8U&t=2s) has been seen by lots of the reloaders in this forum, but for those relatively new, it is worth watching. It's not so much from the counting aspect but for the sorting process.

 

I use two trays instead of the one with plywood described in the video but the idea is the same. For rapid manual sorting, you just can't beat this method. I start with one tray marked with a red sharpie and look in all the cases that are facing up and cull out the stepped cases. The importance of getting these cases out for those shooting 9 major was drive home recently when a stepped case slipped through the sorting and separated in the chamber (see picture). Thankfully, it was just during practice, so no harm done. The separation was so perfect, it looked like it was done on a lathe. 

 

Once I look IN the cases, I check any cases that are facing down for NATO brass and other undesirable stamps. Once I remove those, I flip the whole tray into another tray (marked in green) and do the same again. Once checked, they go into a tub for cleaned, and now sorted, brass. The green tray lets me know I have done both sides. 

 

I can do 50 pieces in about 30-60 seconds depending on how many cases get rejected. This is the best way I have found for looking at both ends of the 9mm cases before they make it into the press. Feeding your press the best possible brass will go a long way towards eliminating stoppages.

9mm stepped case separation.jpg

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16 minutes ago, BJinPass said:

I am sure this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpkUnUqMo8U&t=2s) has been seen by lots of the reloaders in this forum, but for those relatively new, it is worth watching. It's not so much from the counting aspect but for the sorting process.

 

I use two trays instead of the one with plywood described in the video but the idea is the same. For rapid manual sorting, you just can't beat this method. I start with one tray marked with a red sharpie and look in all the cases that are facing up and cull out the stepped cases. The importance of getting these cases out for those shooting 9 major was drive home recently when a stepped case slipped through the sorting and separated in the chamber (see picture). Thankfully, it was just during practice, so no harm done. The separation was so perfect, it looked like it was done on a lathe. 

 

Once I look IN the cases, I check any cases that are facing down for NATO brass and other undesirable stamps. Once I remove those, I flip the whole tray into another tray (marked in green) and do the same again. Once checked, they go into a tub for cleaned, and now sorted, brass. The green tray lets me know I have done both sides. 

 

I can do 50 pieces in about 30-60 seconds depending on how many cases get rejected. This is the best way I have found for looking at both ends of the 9mm cases before they make it into the press. Feeding your press the best possible brass will go a long way towards eliminating stoppages.

9mm stepped case separation.jpg

Pretty neat concept.  Since all my brass is already sorted, I clean and sort picked brass up by hand.  I then dump them into bins with the same head stamp.  Since I'm only doing a couple of hundred at a time, it doesn't take that long.

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First time seeing that video.  Fantastic.  

 

So many tips/tricks out there to smooth the reloading process.  

 

 

(I’m glad I didn’t start sorting the 1k rounds i just tumbled and dried this afternoon)

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1050 or not?  I had that quandary once, after moving from a pair of SDBs to a 650.  When I was seriously practicing and competing and shooting 20-25,000 rounds a year of 9mm alone, the 1050 made sense.  I bought one, fought with it for a few months, and once I finally got it tweaked to reliably prime, and to swage without cracking shellplates, it was the smoothest loading sessions I ever experienced.

 

When I decided to consolidate calibers for pistol competition to one, I decided on 9mm in large part because the 1050 did that so perfectly and easily.  

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 I started competition shooting a year ago. Started with an edge 40 for limited. And got bulk ammo from freedom munitions. Once I was getting used to drawing a pistol and stage planning. Tried production and enjoyed it too. This got me into reloading and since I shoot 2 calibers the obvious choice was a 650. Now that my eyes are holding me back I am now shooting Carry Optics and commissioned a gunsmith to building me my first open gun. I keep on trying to sell myself a 1050 but something seems to stop me from getting one. Yeah I know the price is one of them but after dealing with the brass pick ups that I have and I have three 5 gallon buckets of unprocessed 9mm brass. I still can’t let go of the 650 coz of all the upgrades that I put in it. When I reload and the lee U die rod pops up I just chuck that brass into a separate bucket and continue. Well, what do I do when that bucket of tough primers is full? It would be a waste if I couldn’t process that... 

 

 

i forgot to mention that i reload for 3 of my shooting buddies that’s why 25k of minor mixed with major loads was easy to reach. 

Edited by Gviz

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1 hour ago, Nik Habicht said:

1050 or not?  I had that quandary once, after moving from a pair of SDBs to a 650.  When I was seriously practicing and competing and shooting 20-25,000 rounds a year of 9mm alone, the 1050 made sense.  I bought one, fought with it for a few months, and once I finally got it tweaked to reliably prime, and to swage without cracking shellplates, it was the smoothest loading sessions I ever experienced.

 

When I decided to consolidate calibers for pistol competition to one, I decided on 9mm in large part because the 1050 did that so perfectly and easily.  

 

Im now shooting 9mm major and minor and reading your post makes sense to get a 1050. Oh well now I know where my tax money is going... lol ? 

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Gviz 

 

After reading your posts I think I hear a theme, you like the gadget side of the sport, a lot!  

 

After one one year you’ve switched, what three guns and divisions, loaded 10s of thousands of ammo and now want to set up a complicated sorting and pre-loading prep process. It all sounds like fun and a worthy side of the hobby/sport. I too catch myself thinking such thoughts and can fully sympathize with you. 

 

The way I’m going these days was to find a bullet and load that will work for almost all the range brass out there and I’m sticking with one division, Production, and gear until I master it. 

 

My reloading is a 650 set up with:

Case feeder

Roller handle

Dillon dies,

Mr. Bullet feeder

Hundu finished round sizer. 

 

The only one thing I wish for is a faster way to fill the primer tubes, I use the Vibra one from Franklin and pre-fill 10 of them before starting a loading session. 

 

I have added a big magnet to sort out the occasional steel case that is now being used by Federal in their factory loads these days. 

 

Enjoy it all!

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8 hours ago, HesedTech said:

 

My reloading is a 650 set up with:

Case feeder

Roller handle

Dillon dies,

Mr. Bullet feeder

Hundu finished round sizer. 

 

The only one thing I wish for is a faster way to fill the primer tubes, I use the Vibra one from Franklin and pre-fill 10 of them before starting a loading session. 

 

I have added a big magnet to sort out the 

8 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Gviz 

 

After reading your posts I think I hear a theme, you like the gadget side of the sport, a lot!  

 

After one one year you’ve switched, what three guns and divisions, loaded 10s of thousands of ammo and now want to set up a complicated sorting and pre-loading prep process. It all sounds like fun and a worthy side of the hobby/sport. I too catch myself thinking such thoughts and can fully sympathize with you. 

 

The way I’m going these days was to find a bullet and load that will work for almost all the range brass out there and I’m sticking with one division, Production, and gear until I master it. 

 

My reloading is a 650 set up with:

Case feeder

Roller handle

Dillon dies,

Mr. Bullet feeder

Hundu finished round sizer. 

 

The only one thing I wish for is a faster way to fill the primer tubes, I use the Vibra one from Franklin and pre-fill 10 of them before starting a loading session. 

 

I have added a big magnet to sort out the occasional steel case that is now being used by Federal in their factory loads these days. 

 

Enjoy it all!

 

 

We have the same 650 setup I did go in the cry once route but did it very carefully. I looked at the system and saw that the primers only held 100 at a time. I immediately saw that the primer  system would be the limiting factor. I did my first bullet loads using the 650 without any attachments once I had the hang of things and got my recipe locked in. I noticed powder all over the place. That’s when all the research via Brian Enos forum started.

 

Plus, I learned a lot from other members. I got all the mods for that shell plate so it would stop slinging powder. then got the lights to help me see what I’m doing. Then I got the case feeder and the rolling handle bar. Ran with that for a month then Had a bunch of failure to extract. Did some research well, I got lazy so I asked the members and they were kind enough to point me ot the right parts to get. so got my dies switched out to egw u die and Redding die for OAL. Then went with the mini bullet feeder since I didn’t see the need for a mr bullet feeder. Went with this setup for 6 months.  Loading primers using the pick-up and then the vibrating hand held thing got combersome coz I keep on loading 100 primers at a time. I got tired of the primer loading so I got the Dillon rf100 and wow things really sped up quick. Went with this set up for another month. Now the mini bullet feeder was dragging me behind so I went a step further and got the mr bullet feeder.

 

So the mr bullet feeder combined with the Dillon rf100 is fantastic! Easy in and out for once. Now it’s livable coz I can’t be stuck in the garage for more than 2 hrs at a time (Wife and my baby ). Now, I can load 500 round easy in one quick session. No more setting up the mini bullet feeder every time it runs out and no more primer juggling with the vibration plate. I just dump the primers in while they jiggle in the tube hands free and just dump 2 hand fulls of bullet heads on the bullet feeder and crank ahead. Only stopping to pick up a fresh tube from the rf100 and dump a hand full of bullet heads into the hopper. 

 

Now if I can figure out how to process my growing pile of stubborn primered brass... 

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On 2/27/2018 at 10:27 AM, BJinPass said:

I am sure this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpkUnUqMo8U&t=2s) has been seen by lots of the reloaders in this forum, but for those relatively new, it is worth watching. It's not so much from the counting aspect but for the sorting process.

 

I use two trays instead of the one with plywood described in the video but the idea is the same. For rapid manual sorting, you just can't beat this method. I start with one tray marked with a red sharpie and look in all the cases that are facing up and cull out the stepped cases. The importance of getting these cases out for those shooting 9 major was drive home recently when a stepped case slipped through the sorting and separated in the chamber (see picture). Thankfully, it was just during practice, so no harm done. The separation was so perfect, it looked like it was done on a lathe. 

 

Once I look IN the cases, I check any cases that are facing down for NATO brass and other undesirable stamps. Once I remove those, I flip the whole tray into another tray (marked in green) and do the same again. Once checked, they go into a tub for cleaned, and now sorted, brass. The green tray lets me know I have done both sides. 

 

I can do 50 pieces in about 30-60 seconds depending on how many cases get rejected. This is the best way I have found for looking at both ends of the 9mm cases before they make it into the press. Feeding your press the best possible brass will go a long way towards eliminating stoppages.

9mm stepped case separation.jpg

I tried this today it is the fastest way to Count the brass and check for the brass that has ledges... before lube and dump into the case feeder ??

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For the tray trick I use Frankford Arsenal .40 loading trays to count and inspect 9. The spacing makes them work even better. I inspect every case before it goes into the case feeder even if it's new. Looking for flash holes, steps, debris, wrong caliber, and head stamps I don't like. 

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12 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

For the tray trick I use Frankford Arsenal .40 loading trays to count and inspect 9. The spacing makes them work even better. I inspect every case before it goes into the case feeder even if it's new. Looking for flash holes, steps, debris, wrong caliber, and head stamps I don't like. 

Do you find the cases fall into the Frankford trays with the round holes easier than the square hole trays seen in the video? I have used the square hole trays mostly because they are free if you look in the waste bins at most any range, and the cases fall in extremely easily, when you move up one size from what you are sorting/inspecting. 

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1 hour ago, BJinPass said:

Do you find the cases fall into the Frankford trays with the round holes easier than the square hole trays seen in the video? I have used the square hole trays mostly because they are free if you look in the waste bins at most any range, and the cases fall in extremely easily, when you move up one size from what you are sorting/inspecting. 

Tried it just now the brass goes in easy with the square 40sw ammo trays. I use the berrys 100 round trays 

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3 hours ago, BJinPass said:

Do you find the cases fall into the Frankford trays with the round holes easier than the square hole trays seen in the video? I have used the square hole trays mostly because they are free if you look in the waste bins at most any range, and the cases fall in extremely easily, when you move up one size from what you are sorting/inspecting. 

 

I'd say yes, but it probably has more to do with the spacing.  I use the square hole trays for counting and quick checking brass before wet tumbling.  The Frankford trays work way better for closer inspection and flipping them between the two trays.

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Really good info here. Neat trick for sorting. That’s the first time I’ve seen that video. 

 

I thought hard about about just going with the 1050 but I decided I’d end up switching between .40 and 9mm so I went with the 650 since it’s easier to swap calibers. 

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After playing around with 9mm processing. I finally settled on using one toolhead using egw u die, DAA powder funnel, mr.bullet feeder, Redding seater die and Dillon crimp die. Now I’m happy and contented with my setup. Thanks to all of your comments in helping me narrow down my choices. Oh and yes I kept the 650... cheers everyone ?

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