Razor red dot riser

[Shooter212]

I have a vortex razor on the way and want to order a riser. My question what height is everyone running with these one inch looks too high. It’s going on a Ar pcc. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Shooter212

[kipdynamite]

I have it on my AR-15 with the Razor Red Dot. Perfect co-witness with my irons.

[MikieM]

My Holosun 503C measures 3 inches from the bore centerline to the centerline of the front glass.

 

And, to Kip. The only co-witness we need in PCC is when we' are trying to convince the wifey that: "I swear, Honey. The nudie bar was the only place big enough for our gun club meeting."  

[Tampa-XD45]

I'm running a different red dot but I just ordered a 1/2" riser for my AR9. 

[BartCarter]

Normal co-witness height for an AR is about 2.6 inches.  I try to get all my sights at that height.  Really works well for me when I switch from one gun to another even if they have different sights.  The one thing I do well is get my sight on target from any start position.  Vortex will give you your height to the dot and you can easily find the correct riser if you need it.

[LtdShooter]

Get the Vortex Riser and be done with it.   Height from that riser is spot on.   If you are not running it co-witness with irons then put the dot as far back on the receiver as you can and when you look through the window of the Razor you won't be cluttered up with any of the sight housing and all you will see for the most part is the dot.   I've played around with the optic position and this is the way to go for what my 2C is worth...

Find one here.  There are plenty of sources for the Vortex Riser but this is a fair price and $0 shipping...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vortex-Razor-Red-Dot-Riser-Mount-with-Quick-Release-Lever-MT-5108/311991679081?epid=2255553571&hash=item48a4273869:g:xXMAAOSwmudaFyhZ

BTW...  My Vortex Riser (for the Venom) is made by Samson and the quality is first rate.  The Riser for the Razor appears to be made by American Defense Manufacturing (ADM) and they make an excellent mount (have 4 of their QD's for AR's and Bolties) and will keep buying their products.

Edited February 21, 2018 by LtdShooter

[bwframe]

BUIS co-witness is a standard I too wish to duplicate on all of my AR's. Vortex does not make that easy, with a perfect co-witness riser of their own. 

 

Flipping up the irons to verify the dot hasn't rattled around isn't too much to ask for is it?   

[LtdShooter]

I understand your desire but before you get too caught up in the BUIS thing you should consider what the purpose of the PCC is.  If it is primarily a competitive piece then I would not bother with any irons at all as they will just add weight and clutter to the carbine.  Also given the fact that quality red dots (Vortex being one) are rock solid and not prone to failure, I would not worry at all about backup sights for competition.   However, if the PCC is to double as perhaps a home defensive arm then a case can be made for BUIS but then again in low light situations you may be better served with a good green laser (Crimson Trace CR-206 comes to mind) that also is legal and makes a nice add to your PCC for USPSA work. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by LtdShooter

[MikieM]

Yeah, I wondered what this co-witness crap had to do with PCC.

[Underwood]

16 hours ago, MikieM said:

Yeah, I wondered what this co-witness crap had to do with PCC.

same here 

 

[BartCarter]

On 2/20/2018 at 1:59 PM, BartCarter said:

Normal co-witness height for an AR is about 2.6 inches.  I try to get all my sights at that height.  Really works well for me when I switch from one gun to another even if they have different sights.  The one thing I do well is get my sight on target from any start position.  Vortex will give you your height to the dot and you can easily find the correct riser if you need it.

 

It's not so much about actually co-witnessing with irons on your PCC as being at a co-witness height.  I only use a red dot, but it is at 2.6 inches, the same as all my sights.

[LtdShooter]

Hence my reason for recommending the Vortex Riser's.   Venom or Razor, either model puts the dot at a great co-witness height.   

Edited February 22, 2018 by LtdShooter

[gdcguns]

I have backup/flip up  irons on my PCC. Even if it is just a game gun, who wants to throw away a stage or a match because their red dot fails? Not me, that's for sure. I have seen a lot of red dots fail, from cheap ones all the way up to $600 aimpoints. Is it life or death? No. But a set of Magpul BUIS don't add enough weight to be concerned about and are cheap insurance that could save your stage or match. Especially if it's a bigger match or one you had to travel very far to attend. 

[Norther]

I don’t have sights on mine, but I like to keep the height the same. IIIRC, I just stuck a 1/2” YHM riser under my Razor. I think it’s a little higher than an absolute cowitness. 

 

When people say “cowitness”, they may mean absolute or lower 1/3.  Absolute would be around 1.41” above the rail I believe. 

 

Vortex seems to think everyone wants lower 1/3. 

[bwframe]

Hopefully ya'll don't kick me out for not being the die hard gamers you are? I gave up running with the big dogs a while back. 

 

I run my PCC set up the same as the rest of my AR's. I appreciate the oportunity practice/test my rifle skills on a USPSA COF.  

[BartCarter]

Just to add, iron sights on an AR are about 2.6" from the center of the bore.  If you want to keep your red dot in the same plane as your eyes with your cheek weld, you should pick a riser that accomplishes that.  If your "natural" cheek weld puts you eye a little higher, there is no reason to not have a higher red dot height.  In other words, YMMV.

[noexcuses]

17 hours ago, gdcguns said:

I have backup/flip up  irons on my PCC. Even if it is just a game gun, who wants to throw away a stage or a match because their red dot fails? Not me, that's for sure. I have seen a lot of red dots fail, from cheap ones all the way up to $600 aimpoints. Is it life or death? No. But a set of Magpul BUIS don't add enough weight to be concerned about and are cheap insurance that could save your stage or match. Especially if it's a bigger match or one you had to travel very far to attend. 

if the red dot fails then I go to the green dot (cr-206)

[gdcguns]

1 hour ago, noexcuses said:

if the red dot fails then I go to the green dot (cr-206)

Whatever works, at least you have some kind of backup aiming device. I don't have lasers on any of my guns, but I think it would take me longer to hunt for that dot on a distant target than to use my sights. Probably a great option up close though. To each their own. 

[Shooter212]

Thanks for the input guys. I ordered a 1/2”  riser. I want it as close to absolute co/witnessed as possible. I have never had back up irons but gdcguns makes a good point. I think some magpuls will end up on there. 

[Startingover]

Am I going to see much difference in effective accuracy of my dot as distance changes between absolute and lower 1/3?

 

My thinking is that, as the sight gets farther away from the plane of the barrel, it increases the angle.

 

I want to make the least amount of mental corrections as possible, but I assume there will need to be some as I get real close, or move back 30-40yrds

Edited May 31, 2018 by Startingover

[BartCarter]

Personally, I use co-witness heights.  My cheek weld is the same for any AR I set up, whether iron, dot or scope.  Makes it easy to train for the sights to be on target with everything I build.  If I have BUIS, they are of the flip-up type and don't get in the way.  Once you figure your offsets, you are good to go.

 

As far as offset between the two, I don't think you will notice that much difference.  Far more with what difference you zero at.  I zero at 25 yards with 9mm.

 

That said, you probably have a natural cheek weld at some height.  Do some cheek welds with your eyes closed and see if you can figure out where it is.  You may want to go with that height.

[Startingover]

20 hours ago, BartCarter said:

 

 

That said, you probably have a natural cheek weld at some height.  Do some cheek welds with your eyes closed and see if you can figure out where it is.  You may want to go with that height.

I like this idea.

It's probably more important to go with what's most comfortable and natural to find the dot, and then worry about corrections later.

[Pewpewlife]

Master of Arms makes a mount for the Vortex Razor red dot specifically if your looking for something other than a picatinny  riser. Made of titanium and only weighs 0.6 oz!  Measures .91 from bottom to top when mounted. 

[S&W627shooter]

Check out the Strike Industries Rex Riser.  I put my FastFire3 on one, and I love it!  https://www.strikeindustries.com/shop/r-ex-riser.html

[Startingover]

Thanks for reminding me of the Rex

I kinda forgot about them