Do you like the new Production rules?

[threat]

Yes, the new rules are awesome. No I can change parts on the outside of my gun that make it easier to fit my hands and don't have to worry about trivial crap anymore that doesn't give any competitive advantage. 

Really excited to get a Short Reach trigger on my DA/SA guns so I can shoot the gun more comfortably.

[happygunner77]

This thread is fun. 

[HalfBastard]

I had already managed to set up my CZ within the old rules just fine, but I think that this rule change is good. Less worrying about relatively minor parts will save everyone time at gear inspection. 

[mike4045]

I don't care. Make it 2 divisions like old days. Now it's a limited minor gun without a magwell.

 

[Mushki25]

1 hour ago, mike4045 said:

I don't care. Make it 2 divisions like old days. Now it's a limited minor gun without a magwell.

 

+1 for going back to just two divisions 

[HalfBastard]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:21 PM, Mushki25 said:

+1 for going back to just two divisions 

 

On 4/14/2018 at 8:15 PM, mike4045 said:

I don't care. Make it 2 divisions like old days. Now it's a limited minor gun without a magwell.

 

This is silly.  Surely you guys aren't serious?  You don't think that having a division that can one can be reasonably competitive in with an off-the shelf 9mm has helped fuel the growth the sport is seeing today?  Sure, you could shoot a stock G17 in limited minor, but you absolutely no chance against people shooting 2011s with major scoring.  While some divisions need to go away (single stack, I'm looking at you), going back to just Limited and Open would absolutely decimate USPSA membership.

[Mercs]

In today’s world, there needs to be a class for the division-neutral to shoot in


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[PatJones]

My SIG P226 is Legal today, I'm not sure it will be in the 15th. I have installed the smaller de-cocking lever from the SIG Legion series as currently allowed under the rules.

The new appendix D4 removes the permission to install OEM parts from another approved pistol and specifically lists the parts you can change. De-cockers are not listed. I have emailed Troy and I've been assured that if it's legal today it's ok after the rule change, but I don't see it in the rules.

My area director told me that de-cockers were intentionally left off the list for fear that someone could convert a de-cocker model CZ to a thumb safety model. I was then told to not worry about it because no one would notice.

Is my reading of the new Appendix D4 wrong?

[HalfBastard]

17 hours ago, Mercs said:

In today’s world, there needs to be a class for the division-neutral to shoot in


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"My Open gun *identifies* as a Glock 17, and you're oppressing me by not letting me shoot in my true division."

[OdinIII]

I have emailed Troy and I've been assured that if it's legal today it's ok after the rule change, but I don't see it in the rules.

It’s no wonder why this is such a mess when the norm is to constantly try redefining clearly defined rules

My area director told me that de-cockers were intentionally left off the list for fear that someone could convert a de-cocker model CZ to a thumb safety model. I was then told to not worry about it because no one would notice.

Same as above. Wow!

[teros135]

1 hour ago, HalfBastard said:

"My Open gun *identifies* as a Glock 17, and you're oppressing me by not letting me shoot in my true division."

 

Perhaps we should start giving out "participation trophies", too. ?

[HalfBastard]

7 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 

Perhaps we should start giving out "participation trophies", too. ?

You mean like "High D class revolver" plaques from L2 matches?

[bodybag0]

The new rules are good for Glock shooters

[Mcfoto]

20 minutes ago, bodybag0 said:

The new rules are good for Glock shooters

 

except all the Glock shooters I know shoot Limited...

[mike4045]

On 4/17/2018 at 10:56 AM, HalfBastard said:

 

This is silly.  Surely you guys aren't serious?  You don't think that having a division that can one can be reasonably competitive in with an off-the shelf 9mm has helped fuel the growth the sport is seeing today?  Sure, you could shoot a stock G17 in limited minor, but you absolutely no chance against people shooting 2011s with major scoring.  While some divisions need to go away (single stack, I'm looking at you), going back to just Limited and Open would absolutely decimate USPSA membership.

I think the dozen divisions we have makes matches a joke.  60 shooters no more than 7 or 8 in a division. Since you changed rules to make production limited minor without a magwell, carry optics is open minor.  The you get rid of 2. Limited 10 is a joke no participation at most matches. Open and pcc have optics and comps. Leaves with you with open, limited and single stack. 

[JAFO]

13 hours ago, PatJones said:

My SIG P226 is Legal today, I'm not sure it will be in the 15th. I have installed the smaller de-cocking lever from the SIG Legion series as currently allowed under the rules.

The new appendix D4 removes the permission to install OEM parts from another approved pistol and specifically lists the parts you can change. De-cockers are not listed. I have emailed Troy and I've been assured that if it's legal today it's ok after the rule change, but I don't see it in the rules.

My area director told me that de-cockers were intentionally left off the list for fear that someone could convert a de-cocker model CZ to a thumb safety model. I was then told to not worry about it because no one would notice.

Is my reading of the new Appendix D4 wrong?

 

I agree.  They went from "any external part may only be replaced with OFM parts on another approved model" to "specific parts may be replaced with whatever".  I can't think of another external part other than the decocking lever that isn't on the new list.  Seems like an oversight.

 

Who cares if someone converts a decocker CZ to a thumb safety?  If a thumb safety version of a CZ was on the list to begin with, it was already a legal modification.

[Dazhi]

Does anyone know when these Production rule changes will take effect officially?

[Bkreutz]

May 18, 2018 (or thereabouts, I know that they are in effect for Area 1 which starts that day for staff)

[Dbw2223]

I find it funny how everybody that doesn't like the rule and shoots production seems to be shooting cz/tanfo. Could they do things differently? Sure. I don't see this as that big of a competitive advantage, just allowing one to make their piece fit them better. We're not all shaped the same. 

[HalfBastard]

8 hours ago, Dbw2223 said:

I find it funny how everybody that doesn't like the rule and shoots production seems to be shooting cz/tanfo. Could they do things differently? Sure. I don't see this as that big of a competitive advantage, just allowing one to make their piece fit them better. We're not all shaped the same. 

I totally support the new rules, and I shoot a CZ. Small external parts make a negligible difference in the end, an I think this will only increase competitive equity in the division. 

20 hours ago, mike4045 said:

I think the dozen divisions we have makes matches a joke.  60 shooters no more than 7 or 8 in a division. Since you changed rules to make production limited minor without a magwell, carry optics is open minor.  The you get rid of 2. Limited 10 is a joke no participation at most matches. Open and pcc have optics and comps. Leaves with you with open, limited and single stack. 

I totally agree that some divisions need to go. But you want to get rid of Production, the biggest division in the sport, and keep single stack? A division literally created so that people have a place to shoot one specific gun? I’d rather keep L10 and ditch single stack than the other way around. There are several key differences between production and limited that you’re glossing over just so you can be cute and call it “limited minor with no magwell”. 

Taking the sport back to where it was in the 80s isn’t how it keeps growing. We certainly don’t need more divisions, or even 8 divisions, but we do need more than 3.

[Dbw2223]

2 hours ago, HalfBastard said:

I totally support the new rules, and I shoot a CZ. Small external parts make a negligible difference in the end, an I think this will only increase competitive equity in the division. 

I just switched from Glock to CZ. I was saying it seems like the people who don't like the new rules are shooting a CZ/tanfo. Is practice the great equalizer? Yes. But come on the shadow 2 is pretty much cheating, extended paddle mag release, excellent trigger out of the box that a gunsmith can tune internally and make it stupid good. I'm sorry but allowing glock m&p and I guess there's still some Springfield shooters to swap mag releases and triggers aren't going to give them any advantage. I agree with you it does "promote" competitive equity. 

[HalfBastard]

1 hour ago, Dbw2223 said:

I just switched from Glock to CZ. I was saying it seems like the people who don't like the new rules are shooting a CZ/tanfo. Is practice the great equalizer? Yes. But come on the shadow 2 is pretty much cheating, extended paddle mag release, excellent trigger out of the box that a gunsmith can tune internally and make it stupid good. I'm sorry but allowing glock m&p and I guess there's still some Springfield shooters to swap mag releases and triggers aren't going to give them any advantage. I agree with you it does "promote" competitive equity. 

“Cheating” implies that the gun is outside the rules in some way. Just as in motorsports, if you have a division based around guns from a showroom floor, some manufacturers will toe that line and produce a gun that maximizes performance within the rules. 

 

Nobody seems to have a problem with 2011s dominating limited and open. Just because a gun is on the production list, doesn’t mean it has to be just as viable for the game as something like a Shadow 2.  It’s silly to think that in the same way it’s silly to think that a USP40 should be as good as an Atlas or SV just because they fit in the same division. 

 

[ItZallGooD]

Wow! It took me more than an hour to read this entire thread.  Entertaining.  This year I am going to try out PRD.  I don't see the rules changes as a deal breaker for me.  As a CRO, it will make it a little easier on the enforcement side of the rules.  On the competitor side, they don't bother me at all. I am only out to have fun when I shoot.  I don't get bent out of shape when I shoot a bad stage but I do have a smile when I shoot a good one.  Rules are rules.  I don't see the point in getting upset in these changes.  They didn't exclude your $200 Glock trigger,  They didn't make aftermarket sights illegal. They didn't cost you any money. I think that half of the fun is tinkering around with the gun to get it how YOU want it.  You could take out your box stock plastic pistol and shoot in PRD if you wanted to.  Now if you were an individual that was trying to get to GM with an out of the box Glock, XD, M&P because you were hung up the the title Production, I could see the aggravation.  I would say work harder and show everyone that it is possible.  I would love to watch a box stock Glock win a national  match.

[JPetrowski]

Sorry for having to ask. But, would this allow me to remove the hump on a Glock frame?

[redpillregret]

Sorry for having to ask. But, would this allow me to remove the hump on a Glock frame?

I do not believe so. It allows texturing but not removing material. Unless I’ve misread it.


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