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Do you like the new Production rules?


Lee G

Do you like new Production rules?  

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I’ve never said it was unfair. It’s totally fair. We can all shoot a Tanfo or 2011 high capacity in .40 and we’re all on the same playing field. But that’s not very inclusive and gets boring. 

Major/minor is about inclusivity, not fairness. You want to shoot limited 9mm? There’s a place for you. You want to shoot 45? Yeah we can do that. You want to try the next generation platform from XYZ gun company? Come on down. 

But inclusivity gets lame when one platform (high capacity 40) has a clear advantage over others. I’m not whining. I like shooting major. I like shooting minor too, but i do it less for the obvious reasons. 

Im just pointing out the inconsistencies in the rationale for the major/minor system and batting around some ideas for addressing those inconsistencies.

If that makes you feel defensive and threatened then maybe it’s not those vest wearing idpa shooters who get the label of ‘pansies.’  Your words, not mine. 

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So in a division one type of gun has an advantage and that is your problem?  Am I reading that right, cause if I am, I don't think you understand racing.  USPSA is a racing sport, in all racing you pick the most advantageous equipment you can afford that fits in the division you want to be in, this will always happen and is why top competitors equipment in any sport looks similar.

 

 

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Ok, I have been sitting back eating popcorn and reading all the posts and have to comments:

 

1. As to the major/minor argument. USPSA is a game and it has certain rules. Just like baseball and hockey. We can lobby for rule changes but it is what it is.

 

2. All this discussion about ammo performance. Why yes there is ways to scientifically tests different rounds that only goes so far. My job puts me in a position to see many people who have been shot and actually been in shootings. What I have learned from 13 years is shot placement is the key. Just had a bad-guy get shot by the good guys 4 times with Speer Gold Dot 200gr +P .45. Twice in the gut, once in the shoulder and once in the elbow and the bad guy lived. I have also had a bad guy drop dead with one Speer 9mm 124gr +P round. I have also seen plenty of individuals die from ball 9mm, .40 and .45 rounds. 

 

Sooooo basically, the rules are the rules now in USPSA. I shoot my local matches with a Glock 19 in Limited and usually finished first in Limited. Also comes down to practice. I shoot minor in limited when i do because it is cheaper.....but I mostly shoot three gun where there is no power factory. 

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3 hours ago, RJH said:

So in a division one type of gun has an advantage and that is your problem?  Am I reading that right, cause if I am, I don't think you understand racing.  USPSA is a racing sport, in all racing you pick the most advantageous equipment you can afford that fits in the division you want to be in, this will always happen and is why top competitors equipment in any sport looks similar.

 

 

Like the old racing question, how fast do you want to go? How much money have you got? I do get frustrated with some of the rules that have come out in racing the past couple of decades trying to "equalize" the field.? Maybe that's why I shoot open (that and I won't fit in the car (or my firesuit) anymore ?)

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Interesting. Yes possibly dropping the pf and allowing 9mm major in limited might even things up. Or alternatively raising the PF for major to 185 might even things up a little too. 
pf was 185 back in the 90s and guns were cracking. no reason to go that high even with a comp

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pf was 185 back in the 90s and guns were cracking. no reason to go that high even with a comp

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Serious question though, was that 45s or 9mm and 40s that people were loading with hopped up rounds to meet the pf with the gun they had? Common sense says that if you load hot rounds in a gun not specifically built for it the gun won’t last as long. That is why some manufacturers warn against +p rounds. Most guys to meet power factors are loading beyond general +p or even +p+ rounds.

Look at the m9, when it was adopted the frames and slides were cracking because the nato 9mm is a much hotter round than it was originally built for so they had to beef it up.

The rule change more than likely came around because they saw people were trying to meet the pf from guns that weren’t originally meant to reach it. So for safety’s sake, to keep guys from blowing up guns, they changed it so it was easier for smaller calibers to reach it and not be as likely to have catastrophic failure.

Just my thinking, i was a toddler around that time so I don’t know specifics


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Serious question though, was that 45s or 9mm and 40s that people were loading with hopped up rounds to meet the pf with the gun they had? Common sense says that if you load hot rounds in a gun not specifically built for it the gun won’t last as long. That is why some manufacturers warn against +p rounds. Most guys to meet power factors are loading beyond general +p or even +p+ rounds.

Look at the m9, when it was adopted the frames and slides were cracking because the nato 9mm is a much hotter round than it was originally built for so they had to beef it up.

The rule change more than likely came around because they saw people were trying to meet the pf from guns that weren’t originally meant to reach it. So for safety’s sake, to keep guys from blowing up guns, they changed it so it was easier for smaller calibers to reach it and not be as likely to have catastrophic failure.

Just my thinking, i was a toddler around that time so I don’t know specifics


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lol I was a kid myself but the old timers have shared this with me. There was no 9 major back then so everyone was using 38 super. A friend mine had a Caspian built for major and his slide cracked after 10k rounds.

165pf for major is a great compromise because even non compensated guns can wield it safely.

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