Best Bullet Weight

[M4 Mike]

Will the 69gr FMJBT that much better than the 62gr FMJBT for 300 yard distance?

[ErikW]

Better at what? A 69 gr HPBT (there isn't a 69FMJ that I know of) will be a little better in the wind than a 62 gr FMJ at 300. Also, it will likely be more accurate.

See for yourself.

[TMC]

I shoot cheapie reloaded 55 FMJ stuff and I have no trouble with LaRues at 300.

Like Erik asked, what do you want to do?

[wsimpso1]

How good do you need your ammo? What are the targets?

55 and 62 grain handloads from a benchrest will group 2-3 minutes from an excellent barrel, which is 6" to 9" at 300 yards. That is OK on full sized gong or flash targets at 300 yards, but you would have to be perfectly centered and with a perfect hold to still miss some of the shots on 8" plates or the alpha zone on the IPSC target.

69 and 77 grain BTHP handloads like are used in highpower are capable of more like 1/2 to 1 minute from a good barrel, and drift less in the wind than 55 and 62 grain ball bullets. Both bullets are good, but 77 grain has become favored because it moves less in a varying wind than the 69. My handload is Win cases, Rem 7 1/2 primers, RL15 powder, and moly 77 grain BTHP bullets, either Sierra or Nosler.

Calibration Time. The 300 yard Rapid Prone High Power 10 ring is 7 inches and the x ring is 3 inches. It is shot from standing to prone, with a mag change, ten shots in 70 seconds, and usually with two sighters and two strings. The best that has ever been done is two strings with 100-10x each, and a third with 100-8x or 9x.

I think that it is safe to say that we will have less stable positions and more time pressure, so your ammo and rifle need to be good to give you a chance if the targets are no full size gongs.

Billski

[benny hill]

A 55 does't drift futher or drop more @ 300. Mine shoots 55 blistic tips into 1.7 inches @300. No need for the heavy ones unless knocking down heavy metal.

[Zak Smith]

55 and 62 grain handloads from a benchrest will group 2-3 minutes from an excellent barrel, which is 6" to 9" at 300 yards. That is OK on full sized gong or flash targets at 300 yards, but you would have to be perfectly centered and with a perfect hold to still miss some of the shots on 8" plates or the alpha zone on the IPSC target.

Better not tell all those barrels that shoot XM193, Black Hills 50gr, or 50-60gr handloads into 1" or less.

Woops.

Here's drop/wind data for some common 223 loads

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0      50     100     150     200     250     300 | YARDS
223 M855          0.324 3150 >   -2.60   -0.82    0.00   -0.25   -1.66   -4.38   -8.53 | drop (inches)
223 XM193         0.243 3270 >   -2.60   -0.84    0.00   -0.21   -1.62   -4.40   -8.76 | drop (inches)
223 77SMK         0.362 2750 >   -2.60   -0.67    0.00   -0.71   -2.93   -6.81  -12.52 | drop (inches)
223 77SMK         0.362 2660 >   -2.60   -0.63   -0.00   -0.85   -3.32   -7.58  -13.81 | drop (inches)
223 75HOR         0.395 2660 >   -2.60   -0.63   -0.00   -0.82   -3.23   -7.36  -13.39 | drop (inches)
223 75HOR         0.395 2750 >   -2.60   -0.68    0.00   -0.68   -2.84   -6.61  -12.13 | drop (inches)
223 69SMK         0.305 2700 >   -2.60   -0.64   -0.00   -0.85   -3.35   -7.72  -14.18 | drop (inches)
223 69SMK         0.305 2800 >   -2.60   -0.68    0.00   -0.69   -2.92   -6.86  -12.73 | drop (inches)

223 M855          0.324 3150 >    0.00    0.20    0.83    1.90    3.45    5.52    8.14 | wind (inches)
223 XM193         0.243 3270 >    0.00    0.26    1.06    2.46    4.51    7.28   10.83 | wind (inches)
223 77SMK         0.362 2750 >    0.00    0.22    0.88    2.03    3.70    5.92    8.73 | wind (inches)
223 77SMK         0.362 2660 >    0.00    0.23    0.93    2.14    3.89    6.22    9.18 | wind (inches)
223 75HOR         0.395 2660 >    0.00    0.21    0.85    1.95    3.53    5.64    8.31 | wind (inches)
223 75HOR         0.395 2750 >    0.00    0.20    0.81    1.85    3.36    5.37    7.90 | wind (inches)
223 69SMK         0.305 2700 >    0.00    0.26    1.09    2.51    4.59    7.38   10.95 | wind (inches)
223 69SMK         0.305 2800 >    0.00    0.25    1.03    2.38    4.35    6.99   10.36 | wind (inches)

[Religious Shooter]

M855 has a BC of .324?

[Zak Smith]

M855 has a BC of .324?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm. I might be off by 0.02. I don't remember where I got the 0.324 number, but googling around gave me two sources at .302 or .301.

If so, the difference is 0.5" wind and 0.25" drop @ 300 yards.

[PacMan]

How good do you need your ammo? What are the targets?

55 and 62 grain handloads from a benchrest will group 2-3 minutes from an excellent barrel, which is 6" to 9" at 300 yards...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm...I must be doing something right for a change because my hand loaded 55 gr Sierra Gamekings or 55 gr Nosler Bal. Tips are grouping less than 1 MOA off the bench, both from 20" Oly Arms SUM 1:10 barrel or 20" JP 1:8 barrel.

55 gr would do just fine on flash targets at 300-350 yds. At 425 yds on Larue, the 55 does not have much left to knock it down if hits are in the 'belly' area.

[wsimpso1]

Hey guys, M4Mike was talking ball bullets vs match bullets... so I was trying to address M4Mike. When you use GOOD 55 grain bullets, they can be made to shoot pretty easily. Since I was not specific enough, I will cover my Big Points (writing the summary now when earlier would have been better...):

55 and 62 grain BALL bullets are 3 minute bullets most of the time. Sometimes you can get a batch that shoots better, but do not count on it. They are probably not good enough for most of our serious targets;

Make the move from ball bullets to match or varmint bullets, like any of the other bullets mentioned, and 1/2 to 1 minute ammo is obtainable. It might take a bit of loading and shooting to find a recipe that your rifle likes, but group shooting is good for shooters' confidence;

NRA High Power shooters really put an accuracy premium on at 300 yards, and most 223 Rem shooters use 77's for 300 yards. Other people who do a chunk of work at that distance could learn from it.

End of Summary.

M4Mike, If you do a bunch of shooting at 300 yards on full size gong targets, the ball bullets might be OK. If you are working on racks of 8" plates and other similarly difficult targets, you probably should use better bullets. After that, it is just a matter of deciding if you will buy reduced wind drift with the heavier bullets and a different zero, or if using one lighter weight bullet for everything is better.

Does that clear everything up?

Billski

[M4 Mike]

I should have been more specific, but the plan was to find the right combo to hit plates at 300 yards. I got the drift and drop ballistics and COD, but thought that I could get away with an across the board load. I'll spend the money for the better bullet, probably hornady 62gr fmjbt. This is for 3-gun shooting, not bullseye. My 55 and 62gr loads in once fired LC brass do well locally up to 200 yds, but I need the edge for the 300 yd shot. It's off to the range soon to test some loads at 300 yards to gain some confidence. Thanks for the help.

[George]

I am using a bulk Hornady 55gr FMJ (Ball if you will). It is a boat tail, but it is a cheapie too. It holds MOA in all my AR's and 3/4 in one. It's ball and it shoots MOA. Of course, I shoot SMK 69's and 77's for any distance, but have used this 55gr stuff to 300+ and it works just fine, thank yew. I would not shoot a FMJ in 69, or 62 grain over the SMK 69 or the Hornady 68gr match JHP.

I have seen factory ball go into just about MOA if it likes the bbl (WW white box and PMC) and I have seen Federal 69 Match go into 2 MOA in one of my AR's. Ball is not always crap and crap is not always ball. The rifle makes the call ;-)

BTW, to answer the original question. The 69 will have slightly more bullet drop at that distance but may buck wind a tad better. Either will work fine, but if I were gonna shoot FMJ, I would use a 55er. If a 55 gr bullet choice goes into 1.5 MOA, or under and it has at least 3050+ velocity from your bbl, it will do just fine out to 350 yards in 3 gunnin' on any steel targets you will come across. The flatter trajectory of the lighter bulet will be a plus too. But, it will drift about 15-20% more than a SMK69 and about 50% more than the SMK 77 at 325 yds in a 15 mph wind.

--

Regards,

[cking]

I believe Sierra makes a 69 boatail, it will buck the wind OK has good BC and weight over 55 makes plate knock down solid. It doesn't have a problem with overall length that the 77/80 have.

[M4 Mike]

I was just looking at the Graf catalog trying to decide what bullet type, weight and manufacturer. Another factor is reliability and it was suggested that I buy factory loaded ammo to increase reliability in major matches. I haven't had any failures in my reloads with 25.5gr. AA2230, LC brass, winchester primers, and Graf 55gr FMJBT....but, the gremlin could be waiting. I had loaded the 55gr bullets from Scharch, but heard of some accuracy problems with them (Golded West bullets).

Again, thanks for all the input.

[Mickster]

Looking over ballistic tables is fine and has value. But going out into the field and testing it out is what will tell you what you need to know. That's exactly what I did.

I set up several 9" paper plates at 300 yards. There was a steady left to right cross wind across the range of at least 20mph, probably more. The ammo was S&B 55gr FMJ's and Black Hills 68's. Rifle was a 20" JP medium countour. Using a bipod at the front and sandbags at the rear I was able to get 3" groups from both ammos.

With a dead center hold the the 68's were hitting just along the right edge of the plate. The 55's were 4" completely off the plate!

Because crosswinds can come in gusts and because I'm no expert on wind doping, it makes sense to me to play it safe and use 68's in 3-gun competitions for those 300 yard shots if possible.

[cottyw]

Zak,

Will you run the tables with the Berger 70/73 gr. VLD bullets and see if it makes a big difference?

Will

[Zak Smith]

The 70gr VLD has a BC almost the same as the 75gr Hornady, so it'll be very close.

[recon215]

A 55 does't drift futher or drop more @ 300. Mine shoots 55 blistic tips into 1.7 inches @300. No need for the heavy ones unless knocking down heavy metal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Benny,

Are the 55 gr ballistic tips the ones with the orange tip? I have some I loaded ages ago and haven't gotten around to shooting yet, but will in the real near future. Would like to know what they are without needing to pull 1. Just curious if they color coded these bullets with the orange or yellow to tell which was which?

Thanks

[kellyn]

One thing I noticed at RM3G is that the 77 grain Black Hills Ammo really rocked the long range swinging targets much more than 55 grainers.

[George]

There is a reason for that Kelly. It's called 204 PF ;-)

That's what my handrolled 77's run downrange at anyway.

[Flyin'Hawaiian]

I think the best bullet is a free bullet! I shoot 55's, 62's if they let me, 69's you name it. It all work's good when it's free.

[Bronco]

Kelly, if you come to the Muscle Man match make sure you bring your free 55's I'd love to watch them wander around on their way in the general direction of the long range targets. Keith

[Flyin'Hawaiian]

I'm trying to get a partner. I'll be shooting free shot gun sfuff!