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How has PCC going?

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Just curious how PCC has been going for any of you that are holding matches. My local club is getting ready for the first match of our season and we are looking forward to some PCC fun. Anything been problematic we need to be ready for, apart from basic rules and safety stuff. This will Be are first year with PCC other than a few side fun matches.

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No matter what anybody says PCC’s take longer to make ready and to clear. Second, don’t get sucked into longer shots or easier leans etc because of PCC. Set your match up just like you always do.

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My club has been running it since USPSA turned it on. The I feel the biggest problem we had was gun handling outside of the COF, but that was in large part due to rules issues in my opinion. At the start they were not clear and stable enough that we could get a good handle on it. The rules now are not perfect with that in mind, but they are pretty good. It has gotten better. My club uses the bag/unbag as the side berm system that is allowed within the rules. The PCC rules give clubs and MD some options on how to handle the division, what ever options you choose make sure all of your PCC competitors know. This is important due to the fact that it can be different from club to club, which is a pain, but it's what we have to work with right now.

I kind of disagree with Sarge about the time it takes to MR and Clear. From what I have seen experienced PCC shooters MR and Clear just as fast as experienced handgun shooters, and on the flip slide in-experienced PCC shooters are just as slow to MR and Clear as in-experienced handgun shooters. It may be more noticeable because there just are not as many experienced PCC shooters out there as handgun shooters due to the division being only about two years old and the fact that the rules have been in flux basically the whole time. To be very honest some of that extra time comes from ROs at times as well. I shot a match today at my club in PCC and Clearing did take a bit longer than it should a couple of times of because more than once  the RO asked me what the range commands are. Lesson here, train up your ROs

 

As far as setting up stages, Sarge makes a couple of good points. We shouldn't change the shooting challenges that we have always put on the ground but in reality we can not set up stages without thinking about PCC from a safety aspect. When I MD or design stages I put down pistol stages, because its a pistol match. Once I'm done with that I look at it with PCC safety in mind. You may have to change the stage procedure for the PCC shooters to keep things safe and the rules allow for this. At the moment I am struggling to think of a time where my club had to do that, but I can see it being a possibility.

 

 

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Noticed after I wrote my post below that this was in the IDPA forum.  I run PCC in USPSA, but don't think my comments would be different for IDPA stages and safety rules, but I am not that familiar with the IDPA PCC rules.

 

Last year was the second year our club ran PCC and I have run quite a few squads with PCC shooters and competed in PCC myself.  Since we are also a 3-gun club we are not new to running long guns.  We have long gun racks that the competitors can put their PCC either cased and flagged or uncased and flagged pointing to the side berm.  Most competitors pick up the PCC muzzle up and flagged, bring it to the line and on make ready point it down range, pull the flag and load.  If the PCC shooter knows they are next and is preparing to come to the line, it takes maybe fractions of seconds longer to make ready if at all.  Takes less time than a pistol shooter not paying attention and you have to call them to the line multiple times.  So time has become a wash.  Then take into account experienced PCC shooters will shoot a stage as fast as an experience open shooter, so less time than a production shooter, and we have found that there is not time issue with PCC.

 

Completely agree with both Sarge and Patrick.  We shouldn't change the shooting challenges or stages to cater to the PCC, set them up as always.  However, consider the PCC shooter as far as the safety aspect of the stage.

Edited by sitw
Updated

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Thanks for the input. I agree with not setting stages to strong points of the carbine.

On 2/11/2018 at 5:48 PM, Patrick Scott said:

biggest problem we had was gun handling outside of the COF,

This is what worries me the most, we are a small club, and most of the shooters are very green to shooting in a match setting.

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Yep, what I've seen as well. The gun handling before and after the course of fire, if not very clearly delineated, seems to get awfully "sweepy" and sloppy with people and clubs new to it.

 

Also get used to more trash talking. About reloads and the overall score. hahahaha.

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It doesn't seem to fit into IDPA as well...

 

Maybe it would be better if I tried it, but it seems that numerous IDPA MD's aren't really on board.

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11 hours ago, wgj3 said:

It doesn't seem to fit into IDPA as well...

 

 

For me it's just a game, I know a lot of people that have shot IDPA for a long time don't like a lot of the new rules, but I think if IDPA would sit on the book for a few years things will smooth out. PCC, I think IDPA looked at how fast the division took off in USPSA, and that the founded was making a PCC they had to add it. I do think it is funny that it's an 18 round game, unless you shoot PCC, but oh well live with it or build a carbine.

11 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Also get used to more trash talking.

That should be easy, that is one thing are group is good at.

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Im interested in trying PCC soon too. One thing that I've noticed watching other do it is that its kinda easy to sweep yourself when going through doorways and such, and its also kinda awkward having someone walk around with a long gun among the pistol shooters too lol

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We let the PCC shooters go first or last. Otherwise, it tends to break up the rhythm if they shoot somewhere in the middle of the order. At least, that is the perception. 

 

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Some clubs around here are still having PCC shooters unbag at the line, and then bag up, after showing clear. Yes, doing it that way definitely takes more time.

The clubs that have racks, and you just grab your flagged carbine, muzzle up, and go to the line, doesn't take any more time than handgun.

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The best thing we did to make LAMR/USC better for the PCC is to have the SO hang onto the chamber flag then help put it in when the shooter is done.

 

Other than that, some stage elements are more difficult to manuever with the rifle, but otherwise it's all pretty much the same.

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shot pcc two weekends in a row with idpa. one club had me shoot for no score and one club put everything in like normal. It feels like cheating and makes the shooting even easier in my opinion.

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Just came back to action pistol shooting (I'll shoot anything: IDPA, USPSA, whatever) after more than a decade away.  Very surprised to see the PCC when I arrived.  

 

In general, I see them as no big whoop and not disruptive for the most part.  I brought my barely-teen kiddos(1) with me and as complete newbies they took longer to get going shooing pistols than the PCC guys did.  They had the RO hold the chamber flag and insert it after show & make clear.

 

What did take longer was that the PCC guys _also_ shot their pistol as a separate entry.

 

I gotta say, I am...intrigued by PCC.  I have a lot more time behind a M4A1 than I do any pistol and a 9mm AR15 would allow me to brush the rust off long-dormant carbine skills.

 

 

(1) Reason for hiatus.  Now they are old enough and responsible enough to play with Daddy at the fun range.

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I've been running pcc for a few months now.  I'm not super serious.....mostly took the plunge for the fun and can run it on a moments notice without having to hit the range prior for a different pistol like I normally would.  My take away is that if you have a carbine, say in .223/7.62 it way helps your weapon handling skills, especially in tight quarters.  And just like in the handgun game, it will let you know where your carbine skills are weak in CQB type stuff.  So if you 2-gun, just want to have fun, or sharpen potentially real life skills, do it.

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We have been running PCC in IDPA for the past couple of months and not had any issues. PCC does take a little longer to run than a regular shooter.


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The local IDPA club will not let PCC and pistol divisions shoot the same match. They will have a PCC only match every so often. 

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In Memphis we have several shooting PCC in our outdoor and indoor matches.  We also have six shooters signed up for the  Walking in Memphis match September 2. 

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Make sure you distribute the pcc shooters evenly between squads. They take significantly longer to run.

Be prepared to spend money on a rifle. It is a lot of fun.


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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, flamatrix99 said:

What is the PCC rifle of choice? I would like to get one myself.

There are several great rifles on the market for PCC.  I run a JP Enterprises GMR-15 which is a great rifle.  It cost a little bit, but it runs great.  You also might want to look at Sig Sauer MPX,  MBX Pro Series PCC rifle, CZ Scorpion EVO Carbine from CZ Custom Shop and CK Arms.  I have seen all of these rifles run in competition and all perform well.  Some of the competitors that have built their own rifles for PCC have had issues, but there are some that have built very good rifles.

Edited by S&W686

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I think I saw a PCC at a distance at Saturday's IDPA match, but not on my squad.

There were several at Sunday's USPSA. 

 

The Ruger is drawing attention, the guy shooting one yesterday was very quick and quite accurate.  Of course he would probably have done well with an AR type or foreign gun with equal effort.   DIY 9mm ARs lead to a condition like the Holster Box.  Most assemblers have leftover unsatisfactory parts.  I recall the guy who had a strange report and broken parts on the ground, too.   

 

One range near here dropped IDPA in favor of an all carbine match.  I don't think it improved attendance that weekend.  USPSA does well there, but Steel Challenge is the big draw. 

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4 hours ago, flamatrix99 said:

I don't shoot USPSA but I think one would be fun to shoot especially with a can on it.

 

 

I agree.  Too bad USPSA will not allow suppressors.

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I recall there can be difficulties with the timer, if using a suppressor. Especially when the RO/Timer Holder cannot be very close to the competitor.

 

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