jrdoran Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi, I'm trying to get my dvc steel to shoot flatter and improve shot to shot speed. I'm a relatively new shooter. Here is a short video of me shooting dvc steel 115gr speer lawman plated ammo. Little more rise than I'd like. Not sure if I am gripping tight enough. I'm a left handed shooter to boot. take a look and let me know if you see anything obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisNC Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Your hand placement looks good, just need to apply more weak hand force. Are you doing a push-pull grip? If not, it’ll help immensely. Edited February 10, 2018 by TravisNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 Thanks for the suggestion on improving weak hand grip; Frankly, no I'm not doing a push-pull grip. I did some reading on it tonight and will try and implement it a bit. I plan on adding a thumb rest to help get a good bite on the gun as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) I wouldn't do a push pull, it puts the recoil down one arm and you are pulling the gun in the direction you are trying to prevent it from going. A nice strong neutral grip, clamp your hands together like a vise and use your chest muscle to keep that vise strong. Edited February 11, 2018 by Supermoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisNC Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, Supermoto said: I wouldn't do a push pull, it puts the recoil down one arm and you are pulling the gun in the direction you are trying to prevent it from going. A nice strong neutral grip, clamp your hands together like a vise and use your chest muscle to keep that vise strong. Just as many successful shooters use that technique. OP- experiment and find what works best for you. Good luck on the journey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomj44 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Push pull as in Weaver stance? Do people still do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisNC Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, tomj44 said: Push pull as in Weaver stance? Do people still do that? I doubt people still use weaver. Engage strong hand tricep and weak hand bicep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It's gonna take a bit for me to unpack this, but I've been wanting to consolidate my thoughts on this for awhile and you guys get to suffer through it. Everyone is going to be a little different but ultimately there is a mechanically ideal way for every person to manage recoil. Some things like exact arm position, extension, tension, weight distribution, lean, etc will be most of the variance between people. Some principles that do seem to ring true from the leverage point of view is it is generally better for pressure on the gun to be as close to the bore axis as possible while also inward towards the bore axis, and to have friction on the gun as far forward toward the end of the barrel as is reasonable. If you could squeeze the gun right at the tip of the barrel, that's the theoretical maximum amount of leverage you can have on the gun as far as I can figure. Obviously we can't do that, but that's the same principle that drives people to slide their support hand forward under the trigger guard/cam their wrist forward and get as high on the beavertail as possible. This is also why thumb "rests" can be an effective tool for recoil management...high forward pressure with plenty of friction. Where most people fall short is they place their hands in a good position, but don't use that position to apply pressure where it will most benefit them. Ideal grip pressure is going to be another individual variable, but in general it's usually safe to say grip harder than you think is necessary. More importantly, I want grip pressure to follow the same guidelines as grip position: high, forward, inward towards the barrel axis. Leverage, friction, and pressure is the holy trinity of recoil management. The downside of this is it's very difficult to learn how to not push the gun all over the place and crunch shots with all this pressure and squeezing coming from different directions. It's also quite difficult/hard on your body to force yourself to do consistently in practice, especially if you're dry firing every day like you should be. Again, this is my general guideline for maximizing recoil management, I'm not saying this is what everyone should do. There are plenty of people that decide to let recoil happen and still put up extremely good scores. After all that, the reason why I think this is valuable is the idea that more recoil management gives you a higher ceiling for speed and accuracy than less recoil management, and my practice data confirms this is true for me. You'll have to decide for yourself what you want your grip and stance to accomplish, and it's critical to log long term data to see if you're happy with the results. Just a couple thoughts. I'm exhausted so sorry if I explained it poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Excellent thoughts Jake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It looks like you have some room to get a Higher grip on the strong hand, left hand, more forward cam with your wrist.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Jake & Others; Thank you for the insightful and useful replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceyduce Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 One last thing I saw that hasn’t been mentioned yet is bringing the gun up without overshooting your sight line (fishing). You spent a fair bit of time hunting for the dot/sight picture as a result of overshooting your draw. Brian’s book does a great job speaking to index. Remember it’s not just horizontal but vertical as well. Develop where the gun points and that first shot will be faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin_Forest Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) On 2/11/2018 at 8:20 AM, Supermoto said: I wouldn't do a push pull, it puts the recoil down one arm and you are pulling the gun in the direction you are trying to prevent it from going. A nice strong neutral grip, clamp your hands together like a vise and use your chest muscle to keep that vise strong. I've found this works better for me Edited May 12, 2018 by Harlequin_Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 12:05 AM, Jake Di Vita said: Just a couple thoughts. I'm exhausted so sorry if I explained it poorly. That's The Best Explanation of the subject that I've ever seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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