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spininfirec

Benelli open vs Dissident Arms

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I will be going open soon for 3gun.  I have several Benellis so I can convert 1 to open and I even have the red dot.  So my options are open benelli and dissident arms.  My issue is $4000 for a the dissident and I have the benelli so I'm lower cost getting into one.  It seems that dissident is the way to go not having the benelli sitting at home.   I'm wondering if a benelli with a Xrail can hang with the dissident or any other option.  I'm not sure if the Xrail is reliable or not.  also noted MKA and siaga are not options.  

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Open shotgun comes down to reliability (1st) and loading speed (2nd). The VEPR will be as reliable as a Benelli with a long tube (14+ rounds). There's no question which gun is FASTER to fill with 10, 15 or 20 rounds. Xrails, from what I have seen at matches, do not meet the reliability criteria. 

 

Also note what is winning shotgun majors. Josh Froelich is running a Dissident VEPR. The AMU is now running a Dissident VEPR. MOST of the US OPEN IPSC shotgun team will run Dissident VEPRs. Ask Josh how many pallets of Federal shells he has through his VEPR. 

 

You will have no trouble selling that spare Benelli to finish funding a Dissident gun. I love my Benelli for Tac Ops, it's just not the tool for Open. 

*Disclosure - I have been involved with Dissident for years and I host and work with Dissident on matches*

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how reliable is a stock vepr vs a dissident? 

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3 hours ago, Garmil said:

how reliable is a stock vepr vs a dissident? 

Hit or miss. Dissident does quite a bit of work to the action to get it running smoothly. I got my stock Vepr running about 85-90% at temps above 50-55°F but I had to use Winchester AA Super Sport. Below 50° it starts to jam up with my standard oil. I have to switch to a very thin oil below 55° and it still gets temperamental. Which is problematic because the last match of the season I shoot is a shotgun match in mid November when it's about 30-40°.

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Xrails are incredibly reliable, but still have faults just like every shotgun. Ive seen every box fed shotgun fair on more than 1 occasion.

 

Welcome to open.

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5 hours ago, Garmil said:

how reliable is a stock vepr vs a dissident? 

I called Mike up at dissident and they do quite a bit of work on them.  They pretty much change them into a dream machine from a possibly problimatic shotgun.  Your talking everything from choke setup, optic mount, action...  I even thought about getting a stock one and slowly converting it.  But after talking with them, it just sounds like your going to want to it right or not at all.

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1 hour ago, Maximis228 said:

Xrails are incredibly reliable, but still have faults just like every shotgun. Ive seen every box fed shotgun fair on more than 1 occasion.

 

Welcome to open.

The open world worries me...

The main reason I am doing this is I bought an open gun for uspsa scoring.  I thought I would go full open to give the open gun a good run and run it full time at least 6 months.  Not even planning on staying in open.

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$4k is for the top of the line DA model.  Even a stock V12 with the comp tuning package is miles ahead of a bone stock one.  IMHO, your matches should dictate your decision.  Do your local matches have less than 12 rounds of bird per stage.  If yes, then the mag change benefit is negated.  An optic on a shotgun for anything other than long distance slugs can be a hindrance.

 

Basically, if you want to go cheap stick a 14rd tube on the Benelli and call it good.  If you want an all out race car get the DA.  

 

To be fair, mag feed shotguns get a bad rap because people want to run the cheapest ammo they can find through a gun that wants a specific kind of ammo.  In comparison my DA runs like a sewing machine on $5 a box 1145s.  

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Ive gotten some interested feedback from some of my local shooters.  Like Joelogic mentioned, different matches will have a different answer. One shooter said he would want the DA in 3gun nation type match but he'd rather have a benelli in blue ridge type match.  I'm actually leaning more toward the benelli to start.  mixing slugs and bird in a magazine could create a lot more problems with any misses to where you could recover easier with a benelli.  One huge advantage I see with a DA model is any empty starts, especially with a higher round count.  

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On 2/12/2018 at 2:14 AM, joelogic said:

$4k is for the top of the line DA model.  Even a stock V12 with the comp tuning package is miles ahead of a bone stock one.  IMHO, your matches should dictate your decision.  Do your local matches have less than 12 rounds of bird per stage.  If yes, then the mag change benefit is negated.  An optic on a shotgun for anything other than long distance slugs can be a hindrance.

 

Basically, if you want to go cheap stick a 14rd tube on the Benelli and call it good.  If you want an all out race car get the DA.  

 

To be fair, mag feed shotguns get a bad rap because people want to run the cheapest ammo they can find through a gun that wants a specific kind of ammo.  In comparison my DA runs like a sewing machine on $5 a box 1145s.  

 

This is good advice. I shoot a TN MKA 1919 that runs about 99% on Win. AA 1145 with a 24 round mag. I also shoot with Mike from DA and several of the guys locally have the DA Vepr shotguns. Great dependable shotguns. Also one of my shooting buddies has a Benelli open gun with a super long tube, I think it holds 14 at the start.

 

Here is my take. We all shoot at about the same speed. Small shotgun stages (9-15) rounds it doesn't really matter which gun you are running. Long jungle run stages with pauses in between targets where you can load you will keep up with the tube fed if you can load fast & move at the same time. Larger ( 20 plus) stages, unloaded starts, and stages with lots of shots close you will never beat the mag fed. You just can't load as fast or carry as much as we can.

 

Most slug shots are at the beginning or end so you plan with your mags when you load for the slugs. I never candy cane loads in my mags. Start with slugs or change the mag out. Too confusing.

 

We regularly have 30 plus stages between our steel matches and 3-gun jungle runs. So I would say it depends on what type of matches you shoot whether to go  with a good tuned mag fed or tube fed shotgun.

 

gerritm

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My 15 round tube on my Benelli M2 can get front heavy is the only downside that I see.  Plus, if I don't sling tube up, the tube will drag on the ground and I look like a little kid. 

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On 2/19/2018 at 4:19 PM, poortrader said:

My 15 round tube on my Benelli M2 can get front heavy is the only downside that I see.  Plus, if I don't sling tube up, the tube will drag on the ground and I look like a little kid. 

What do you have when you say 15 rd tube?  I was looking at nordic +9=12 with plus 2.  1 in the chamber and 1 ghost load= 16.  Ive never ran anything besides nordic.

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On 2/19/2018 at 4:26 AM, gerritm said:

 

This is good advice. I shoot a TN MKA 1919 that runs about 99% on Win. AA 1145 with a 24 round mag. I also shoot with Mike from DA and several of the guys locally have the DA Vepr shotguns. Great dependable shotguns. Also one of my shooting buddies has a Benelli open gun with a super long tube, I think it holds 14 at the start.

 

Here is my take. We all shoot at about the same speed. Small shotgun stages (9-15) rounds it doesn't really matter which gun you are running. Long jungle run stages with pauses in between targets where you can load you will keep up with the tube fed if you can load fast & move at the same time. Larger ( 20 plus) stages, unloaded starts, and stages with lots of shots close you will never beat the mag fed. You just can't load as fast or carry as much as we can.

 

Most slug shots are at the beginning or end so you plan with your mags when you load for the slugs. I never candy cane loads in my mags. Start with slugs or change the mag out. Too confusing.

 

We regularly have 30 plus stages between our steel matches and 3-gun jungle runs. So I would say it depends on what type of matches you shoot whether to go  with a good tuned mag fed or tube fed shotgun.

 

gerritm

When you say up close, you mean no room to load on the move?  or do you mean dot plus comp makes it faster?  

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So when you mag guys carry additional mags, what is that like running on a terrain course or even trying to get down in a rifle position.  Do they carry pretty snug if you need to run?

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What do you have when you say 15 rd tube?  I was looking at nordic +9=12 with plus 2.  1 in the chamber and 1 ghost load= 16.  Ive never ran anything besides nordic.


Normally, my Nordic tube holds 10. I use a Nordic couple and additional 5 which gets me to 15 + 1 for open. For Tac Ops, I have 10 + 2. Tracking? What’s your question?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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12 hours ago, spininfirec said:

When you say up close, you mean no room to load on the move?  or do you mean dot plus comp makes it faster?  

Both, when you have a tight stage, lots of targets, and have a 24 round mag with no reloads with a comp and red dot there is no reload to slow you down, you just shoot. No time spent reloading. How fast can you acquire the next target and pull the trigger. On a 30 plus round jungle/steel run I have only 1 reload so no slowing down. Now most MD's mix in slugs somewhere so it does change strategy.

 

I have U clip type hangers for my mags that fit nicely in my AR mag holders or in my belt. Some guys have actual pouches or leg rigs. Running or moving over terrain is no real problem, but depending on stage set up and gun order going prone first before the shotgun portion can be tricky. Never have lost a mag, yet but depending on how many you carry and how you carry can be an issue.

 

gerritm

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On 3/7/2018 at 5:53 PM, poortrader said:

 


Normally, my Nordic tube holds 10. I use a Nordic couple and additional 5 which gets me to 15 + 1 for open. For Tac Ops, I have 10 + 2. Tracking? What’s your question?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I'm trying to add rds to my gun and looking at the options and to see what people are doing.  The Benelli comes with 3+1. I'm not trying to be difficult, but your answer doesnt specifically tell me what you have on your gun.  Nordic doesnt sell a 10 rd tube to my knowledge.  I'm assuming you have a nordic plus 7 coupled with a nordic plus 5?  

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I don’t most of us were following your questions. If you’re starting with fresh M2, the +7 should get you to 10. I live in an urban area without a garage so I also have + 2 coupler. 12 round tube for Tac ops is normal now.

This thread was discussing tubes for open M2 and this is where I pointed out I have +5 coupler when shooting open and I have 15 + 1 to start. 16 in the tube can be front heavy.

I hope this helps.


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On 2/19/2018 at 7:19 PM, poortrader said:

My 15 round tube on my Benelli M2 can get front heavy is the only downside that I see.  Plus, if I don't sling tube up, the tube will drag on the ground and I look like a little kid. 

 

 

Hit up taccom as he makes a carbon fiber extension tube.  I have a +8 on my 1301 and it weighs like 6 ounces or something.

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The 1st time you're shooting a tube-fed gun in open and the stage briefing says "unloaded start", the disadvantage really sinks in.

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Agree with all of the above. I started shooting open in over winter. Never could get a stock vepr to run 100% no matter the ammo. Sent to Dissident for a competition tune and everything is great. If you send to them, be sure to get mags tuned while they have the gun. I thinks that’s over half the battle with box fed guns. If the mag isn’t tuned for perfect round presentation, you are gonna have issues. Use quality ammo, AA, Fed gold, Rio Gold 1280's work great in mine.

vepr.jpg

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I run Winchester AA 1250 and have never had a problem with my Dissident Arms 

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What type of matches do you do? Short bay stages or 41 round jungle run RM3G? When i started open, running nothing but bay matches. A 14 round tube was just fine in clearing the stage quickly. But like mentioned above, unloaded starts hurt.

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I sold my extra Benelli 3-gun edition to fund half of a Dissident Arms KL-12. What sealed the deal is that X-Rail wouldn't even work on it or sell me the parts to make it into an open shotgun. 

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