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John Shaw, Anyone Remember Him?


nvmichael

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I went to school at Ole Miss with John. When me and my buds were riding dirt bikes we would see him shooting turtles and snakes on the lake. We all said, "he won't amount to much with that shootin". Am I a champion dirt bike racer...NO. Did he become a champion shooter...YES. Shows how good a judge of the future I am :wacko: !!!

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  • 2 months later...
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I actually had the reverse experience at Mid South when I took a course there in 1999. Absolute worst class I've attended, very little training and mostly just shooting on your own. I would not go back to Mid-South with Ross still there. However, I've heard that they have a new instructor there and he might be worth a try. Great facility. Just wish John was still teaching. He sounds like a good instructor.

I worked for John in the late 80's, I am a different Ross than you guys are talking about, just wanted to clear that up. I never had a complaint as long as I worked there AFAIK.

The after class "hunting" trips were a blast, those were the days. John has a personality that people either love or hate, he was good to me and I learned a lot shooting with him. The days I spent instructing at MISS were some of the best of my life, I felt honored to be working with the people that came thru at that time. I have a whole book of stories I could tell about my experiences there.

John was not kicked out of the Bianchi Cup by Ray Chapman, this is one of those Hell I was There things. There was a couple of Texas shooters I would rather not name that did get kicked out. I was on the same squad with them on the falling plate event, a storm came up and it was absolutely raining buckets and the wind was blowing it horizontal. We all shot like crap and just as we finished the ranges were shut down, the two Texas shooters decided to go tell Ray they had to have a reshoot. I didn't go with them because I knew Ray. As I figured they got thrown out but I was a little surprised it was a lifetime ban.

Incidently I worked for Ray after I left MISS, I never had a problem with Ray. Larry Bullock had some bumper stickers made up that said " Will Rogers never met Ray Chapman", last time I was at the Chapman Academy there was still one on the office door. Ray never saw the need to remove it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Two events I remember about John Shaw. One was at the Steel Challenge, when it was held at the old range in Canyon Cyn, Calif. I had John's book with me and it had an error or misprint in it. He was under the vendor's tent with Jim Clark Sr. at their vendor table. I introduced myself to John Shaw and explained to him about the error in the book. He took the book from my hand and threw it across the tent and grab another one from Clark's table and signed it and handed to me.

One other thing I do remember, when I attened the Nationals, in Dallas,TX. He drove up to one of the stages in a black 911 Porsche and parked in front where everyone could see it.

Ray Chapman, I remember shooting with him on the same squad at a World match in Caracas, Venezuela. He didn't shoot fast but always shot A's.

thanks

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  • 5 months later...

I always got along good with John. Me and Robbie were at the Soldier of Fortune match, way back in the early '80's, the only time it was held in Phoenix. I had some piece of crap rifle (can't remember what it was now) for the match, and John offered to let me use his super-tricked out Springfield Armory 308 M14. Every time I saw him after that match, and the topic of rifle shooting came up, he would give me shit because I beat him in the rifle part of the match with his rifle. But what he really gave me shit about - he wanted to split the prize money (I won with the rifle) with him. I told him no way. If that was a part of the deal he should have told me that when he loaned me the rifle!

John's "advice" was what motivated me to develop a quick draw speed. After watching me shoot at the first Steel Challenge in 1981, he said, "Boy, you sure can shoot after you get that thing out of the holster - I've already hit 3 targets by the time you've hit your first." Thinking about that later, it was funny because I realized, up to that point, I had never even considered drawing quickly. All I cared about was hitting the targets.

be

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John is still pretty quick. BJ was helping him out at Steel Nationals one afternoon and they were talking about where time was lost. It went right back to what Brian said in getting the gun out of the holster. They were practicing on Showdown and John's first shot was 1.2-1.3 and BJ was under a second. He looked at BJ and said OK we're going to race. They started racing on draws to the 25 yd gong. They both got draws down around .89. Was fun to watch and BJ thought it was way cool to be shooting with one of the legends he has only read about since starting the sport.

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For those who don't know, John Shaw was the IPSC US National Champion in 1980 and 1981. He was the first to win a National title with a 'Pin Gun' as they were known back then. In 1982 J Michael Plaxco was the first to the Nationals with a 1911 fitted with a compensator as we know them today. It is not hyperbole to say that the two most sinificant events in IPSC/USPSA shooting were John Shaw winning in 1980 with the first pin gun and Jerry Barnhart winning with a red dot in 1989.

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everything you said in this statement is true!

For those who don't know, John Shaw was the IPSC US National Champion in 1980 and 1981. He was the first to win a National title with a 'Pin Gun' as they were known back then. In 1982 J Michael Plaxco was the first to the Nationals with a 1911 fitted with a compensator as we know them today. It is not hyperbole to say that the two most sinificant events in IPSC/USPSA shooting were John Shaw winning in 1980 with the first pin gun and Jerry Barnhart winning with a red dot in 1989.

But you can not rule out BE winning Bianchi with a red dot? Everything prior to that was with iron sights. Now I cant remember if that was before Barnhart won the nationals with his red dot or not?

Am sure someone will step in anc clarify all this. )

thanks

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But you can not rule out BE winning Bianchi with a red dot? Everything prior to that was with iron sights. Now I cant remember if that was before Barnhart won the nationals with his red dot or not?

thanks

That was 6 years before the burner won the Nats with a red dot. The Aimpoint I won the Bianchi Cup with in 1983 was crazy primitive compared to the red dot scopes we have now. It was like looking through a soda straw. So it took 6 years for the scopes to evolve so the field of view was big enough to even consider them for an IPSC match, which the Burner did.

be

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got to meet Mr. Shaw at a small town gun show in Idaho. I have only been competing in USPSA for a couple of years, and I enjoyed getting to visit with someone who has shot and won major matches.

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  • 1 month later...

I actually had the reverse experience at Mid South when I took a course there in 1999. Absolute worst class I've attended, very little training and mostly just shooting on your own. I would not go back to Mid-South with Ross still there. However, I've heard that they have a new instructor there and he might be worth a try. Great facility. Just wish John was still teaching. He sounds like a good instructor.

I worked for John in the late 80's, I am a different Ross than you guys are talking about, just wanted to clear that up. I never had a complaint as long as I worked there AFAIK.

The after class "hunting" trips were a blast, those were the days. John has a personality that people either love or hate, he was good to me and I learned a lot shooting with him. The days I spent instructing at MISS were some of the best of my life, I felt honored to be working with the people that came thru at that time. I have a whole book of stories I could tell about my experiences there.

John was not kicked out of the Bianchi Cup by Ray Chapman, this is one of those Hell I was There things. There was a couple of Texas shooters I would rather not name that did get kicked out. I was on the same squad with them on the falling plate event, a storm came up and it was absolutely raining buckets and the wind was blowing it horizontal. We all shot like crap and just as we finished the ranges were shut down, the two Texas shooters decided to go tell Ray they had to have a reshoot. I didn't go with them because I knew Ray. As I figured they got thrown out but I was a little surprised it was a lifetime ban.

Incidently I worked for Ray after I left MISS, I never had a problem with Ray. Larry Bullock had some bumper stickers made up that said " Will Rogers never met Ray Chapman", last time I was at the Chapman Academy there was still one on the office door. Ray never saw the need to remove it.

Bianchi 1983....Hell I was there as well.

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  • 2 months later...

Lots of memories. But first; leadpoison is full of crap. I or Shaw never did or would harass a shooter battling for a title during their match scoring course of fire. ESPECIALLY not Tom Campbell!! So whatever he is talking about is total bull****!!! Now, could we have harassed one another when it was a side event or a shootoff or something? You bet! We still do, makes the game fun and entertaining. Those that are not really part of that crowd of shooters wouldn't recognize the difference. When you are in a real battle for score, we are supremely supportive. No mind games because what comes around goes around. Plus this ain't golf. We deal with noise and distraction all the time.

John and his son Houston just competed in the Steel Challenge and the scores are available online at USPSA.org. Houston did very well, obviously the apple didn't fall far from the tree. John shot a perfect run on Outer limits and 5 to go, both very difficult stages in that match so he has not forgotten anything he once knew. Shaw was the man when Big Daddy Enos and I started shooting and won 2 IPSC US Nationals and the first Steel Challenge. He quit when he was in his prime and still can outshoot most of us! It was good to see him back but it sure makes me feel old to be battling with my friends children at shooting matches now!

As far as significant events, all that about guns is interesting but the events Like Brian's 505 at the plates in 80 whatever are the things I remember. The part you don't know is that while that was happening on the plates, I was running around scrounging ammo from whoever I could as Brian hadn't brought enough to stay up there and shoot extras for an hour or two!! The stuff he was shooting about halfway through was a total hodgepodge of different bullet types, powders and velocities. That was the amazing part because there is no way he knew where to hold for those different loads, so he just aimed in the middle. There is a lesson there me thinks?

Rob

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What a great bunch of memories this simple thread has brought to mind.

I started shooting IPSC in 1979 in Northern Illinois at Tri County Gun

Club and still shoot there today. That's when we all shot Single Stack

45acp's with H&G 68 lead bullets and WW231 powder. Most of us were

casting our own bullets. I think that one of John's back to back

National Titles was won at the Milan Rifle and Pistol Club in Milan, IL,

but I'm not sure? Can someone help me out with the locations?

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Got to meet John just before this years IronMan. Knew who he was, but now I know who he is. Gave us a grand tour (not going into details, but it was great!) of his place and toys and then told us were were staying there that night. We got to practice on his private range and show him how to use the TWinS system. Truly enjoyed meeting him! :cheers:

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John Won in 1980 and 81 in Virginia, Plaxco in 1982 in Milan, and then I won in 1983 at Milan. '83 was really cool because Brian and I went 1-2, and absolutely destroyed everyone else. That's when the whole game change in IPSC!!

Rob

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John Won in 1980 and 81 in Virginia, Plaxco in 1982 in Milan, and then I won in 1983 at Milan. '83 was really cool because Brian and I went 1-2, and absolutely destroyed everyone else. That's when the whole game change in IPSC!!

Rob

:D

With that awesome avatar, how could you not have won!

be

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As far as significant events, all that about guns is interesting but the events Like Brian's 505 at the plates in 80 whatever are the things I remember. The part you don't know is that while that was happening on the plates, I was running around scrounging ammo from whoever I could as Brian hadn't brought enough to stay up there and shoot extras for an hour or two!! The stuff he was shooting about halfway through was a total hodgepodge of different bullet types, powders and velocities. That was the amazing part because there is no way he knew where to hold for those different loads, so he just aimed in the middle. There is a lesson there me thinks?

Rob

Well if you want to talk significant events I can remember a few. For those who are competeing now, I do not think most people realize how totally Rob Leatham dominated the practical shooting games in the 80's. The first thing one needs to know is that back then there was usually only one 'division', and hence, only one chance to win each match. So in 1985 when Rob won the Steel Challenge, Bianchi Cup and USPSA Nationals in the same year it was an accomplishment that many thought would be impossible for one shooter to do. Or prehaps the World Shoot, I think in 1986, were an equipment problem caused him to zero a stage and he still won the match. How about the shootoffs at the 1987? USPSA Nationals, were as a lark Rob took a shot at a 12" plate left downrange at something like 150 yards and hit it on the second shot, off hand with iron sights?

But I will agree with Rob, Brians 505 plates is most likely the gratest practical shooting feat of all time. Although... winning the Single Stack Classic 16 years in a row isn't too darn shabby!

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  • 2 months later...

I met John at "Winter Range" which is the SASS Nationals. I was assigned to my possee (squad) and I remember this guy who really knew how to move through a course. Being a M-card at the time myself, I found it really hard to keep up with this guy as the stages unfolded. On the second day of the match, someone said "Idaho John is John Shaw". I almost fell down. That was 2001.

As it turned out, we both had a couple of misses which put us out of the running, so we sat at the same table at the awards ceremony and got drunk and loud. I remember folks trying to tell us to quiet down. I don't really remember the match, but I sure remember having a blast with John, a guy who I had only met three days before. He wanted me to come up and do some bird hunting, but work was booming so I never called him. Super-nice guy.

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  • 3 weeks later...

John turned up at the US Steel Nationals this year with his son, took down an award for one of the iDPA divisions and his son was high production shooter over KC Eusibio

I think the current issue has a quote by Mr. Leatham stating that he was unsure how to feel about shooting against his friends kids now. I think he was referring to John Shaw's son Houston.

On a more personal note the first time I ever saw any thing regarding IPSC or speed shooting was when I was pretty young. It was a steel shoot-off of some sort with pepper poppers of various colors and matching color stations to engage them from. I have a really good visual memory and I recall Mr. Leatham, Mr. Barnhardt, and another man (who I think was John Shaw) where in a dead heat for the win and the stage they went into had 3 stations with ramps. It kind of looked like two wheelchair ramps leading to one high position. They started at the bottom of one ramp. Shot several poppers then loaded and ran up the ramp to the top. From the top the shot several more and after another load ran down the other ramp to finish off the last set of steel.

I had never seen anyone shoot so fast in my life. Not even in movies. Until that day my dad was the fastest shot that ever lived though he made no claim to that. I picked the guy with the beard because he looked a lot like my father and I didn't know who to root for. That guy was Rob Leatham and until months later I misunderstood the commentary and thought he was known as "The Burner". I think Barnhardt won and Leatham came second though I thought he won since I had the nickname wrong. I remember 3 things he said in the final interview... "Springfield Armory", "IPSC", and "Fun". I also remember Barnhardt and Shaw congratulating him like the gentlemen they were.

Years later I had a Ruger P-85 of my dad's that he gave me for my birthday when I became old enough to have my own handgun and a few chances to shoot a local Steel Challenge. I had told the Match Director that I had always wanted to compete and I wanted to shoot with Leatham and the other pros someday. He invited me over after that match and offered me a coffee can full of what he promised was at least one and a half 1911's for $50. I looked in the can and saw the word Springfield. I didn't hesitate and I bought the can and my first competition gun.

I still have it and a pretty good start to a wall of plaques and ribbons that it helped me get. I always thought I owed part of those awards to Leatham, Barnhardt and Shaw.

Thanks for changing my life guys.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hehehe..... I was in John and Houston's squad at the SC this year. Regardless of what TGO says...I was the instrumental tool in teaching John how to shoot these stages. Explaining where the stop plate was... helping him load magazines the correct way.

Seriously though.... I have now met all the shooting "idols" and I use the term loosely, especially around Rob...that I used to read about.

I have only one left... Bob Munden. He may not shoot my games, but I remeber reading about him when I was a kid....

I have shot side by side with the best shooters in the World, and almost all of them are great people.. some are a little quirky, but at the end of the day, we all have quirkier people in our families, homes and workplaces.....))))))

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe you guys can help me with this...

I am trying to get a copy of John Shaw's "You Can't Miss" and am not having much luck. Does anyone have an email address for John to see if he might have a copy he would part with?

If anyone has one in decent condition they would like to sell, that would work also.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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