reubenski Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I've been loading on a 550 for about 12 years. 9, 40, 45, 223, 6.5Grendal, and 6BR. I've decided to get a 650 to disperse all of those by migrating the high volume loading away from the 550; 9mm and 223. Buying a used 650 from a buddy that had big eyes and smaller needs. I will be using a MBR and case feeder. I load 3 types of 223. 55gr SP flat base for 3G, 68/69gr match for longer range 3G or carbine matches, and finally 75gr bolt gun match for my 223 trainer barrel on my PRS rifle. The 69gr BTHP and 75gr loads are a no-brainer. They have BT's for the bullet feeder and are loaded using one brand of non-swaged-PP brass. The 55gr bulk load is where it gets tricky bc it's mixed headstamp brass so any number of it is probably swaged PP's and it needs a lot more case prep. Additionally, the bullets are flat based and from what I read folks use a Lyman M die to bell/ expand the case mouth to load FB bullets with the MBR to keep them from falling off the case while indexing. I was fairly obstinate against using a case prep toolhead but after looking at a lot of the facts it's either that or a MK 7 Evolution with a 10 hole toolhead, ha ha! So I've decided to set up a case prep toolhead using the case feeder to -> 1. Decap/ "Swage It", 2. RT 1500 resize/ trim, 3. M die mouth expand. Then, I can prep thousands of pc's of brass and when loading I can go from case feeder to -> 1. Prime, 2. Charge, 3. Bullet feed, 4. Seat, 5. Crimp. The two parts that are causing me some thought are, when to wet tumble and trying to gain an extra spot on the loading toolhead to use the powder check and MBR without having to use a seat/ crimp combo die since I already have Dillon 223 carbide dies. Option 1. It would be nice to tumble after prepping the brass so that the PP's are clean but frankly clean PP's don't even matter as much as most people think, even with precision rifle. The other advantage would be that it would clean the lube off after prepping the brass and before storage prior to actual loading. I won't need to lube the brass again when loading bc it's already sized so I won't have to worry about powder sticking to a wet case mouth. Option 2. Tumble prior to prepping the brass using a wax mixed in to get the case's clean AND somehow lubed without a case lube. I haven't done this however so I can't be sure that a "waxed" case won't jam in a sizing die. The advantage to this would be that I won't be running dirty lubed cases through the machine die. The disadvantage would be the UNK of this "wax" treatment and the PP's will hold a bit of moisture from wet tumbling with fired primers until they get run thru the case prep toolhead. Although, I can imagine this is probably a non-issue as long as I'm not loading right after case prep. For guys loading for similar needs as myself, What is your work flow when using a case prep toolhead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Pre-process tumble to remove dirt. Apply lube and process. Tumble again to remove lube before loading... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I hate reloading rifle ammo and I’ve got a tool head set up for prep and a 2nd for loading on the prep tool head station 1 has a decamping die station 3 has the Dillon trimmer set up to trim short for a rcbs x-die station 5 has an old sizing die with the expander ball sticking way out to swage the burr on the inside of the case neck after prep its tumbled, and put in a 5 Gal bucks so it ready to load, I’ll do this once every couple of years the advantage of the x-die, especially for blasting ammo is once it’s trimmed, you never have to trim them again, so it’s like loading pistol ammo lube the cases and go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reubenski Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks for the replies fellas. Washing blaster brass twice is definitely not something I want to embrace but realize it may be a reality. Are you using the expander ball to debur bc the RT 1500 doesn't have a three way cutter? Crap, I over looked that. yuck! GTK that you're mitigating it will a button. I might invest in an expander mandrel if the M die doesn't smash the sharp edges out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'm pretty similar in my setup. #1 universal decapping die #2 Swage it #3 Full length resizing die #4 Rt1500 I don't use any other dies. my 1500 doesn't leave any burs, nor do i expand the case mouth after trimming. Tumble the brass prior to processing, lube, tumble again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reubenski Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Thanks. Do you just leave the first station empty on the loading toolhead? Do you use flat based bullets with a MBR? Any issues? Edited January 27, 2018 by reubenski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reubenski Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, stick said: I'm pretty similar in my setup. #1 universal decapping die #2 Swage it #3 Full length resizing die #4 Rt1500 I don't use any other dies. my 1500 doesn't leave any burs, nor do i expand the case mouth after trimming. Tumble the brass prior to processing, lube, tumble again Thanks. Do you just leave the first station empty on the loading toolhead? Do you use flat based bullets with a MBR? Any issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Uh, he DID say 1# universal decapping die. That IS the first station... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Tom, He asked about the loading head, not the processing head. This is a 2 head system... Do a dry tumble the 1st time to clean. Less mess... 1st die in the LOADING head, I use universal decap to clear tumbling media. I don't wet tumble at all. You will probably find that you will need a M die or something similar, especially with flat base bullets. I use the swage hold down die on a 1050, it's like a M die. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I also do a slight taper crimp after seat. The M die removes any inside burr, and the crimp removes any burr on the outside. A 3 way cutter is not necessary, we have been conditioned that it is thou... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeeg Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Clean brass in wet tumble let dry Lube with Dillon spray Prep tool head: Station 1 decap/full length resize Station 2 blank Swage it tool Station 3 rapid trim 1200 Station 4 blank Station 5 Lyman M die(to debur slightly) Either tumble in Wet tumbler again to take off lube Pros: don't have to buy a dry tumbler Will clean primer pockets Should fully debur the case mouth Cons: have to wait to dry again. as long as You do big batches this shouldn't be a problem Or dry/vibratory tumble for 20-30mins to get lube off Loading tool head: Station 1 Lee universal decapping die(Incase any media is in flash hole) Station 2 Dillon powder die Station 3 mr. Bullet feeder Station 4 Dillon bullet seating die Station 5 Dillon crimp die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeeg Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 As far as getting a powder check die and using a mr.bullet feeder these are the options I know of 1. Supposedly mr.bullet feeder is going to release a new bullet dropper that also seats the bullet this would free up a station(hoping this gets released soon) 2. A combination seat crimp/Die 3.forget the Dillon powder check die and use a video camera to visually check the powder level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 5 hours ago, RiggerJJ said: Tom, He asked about the loading head, not the processing head. This is a 2 head system... Do a dry tumble the 1st time to clean. Less mess... 1st die in the LOADING head, I use universal decap to clear tumbling media. I don't wet tumble at all. You will probably find that you will need a M die or something similar, especially with flat base bullets. I use the swage hold down die on a 1050, it's like a M die. jj OK, excuse me while I go shoot myself in the other foot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 12 hours ago, reubenski said: Thanks. Do you just leave the first station empty on the loading toolhead? Do you use flat based bullets with a MBR? Any issues? Loading tool head uses another universal decapping die just in case anything gets stuck in the flash hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reubenski Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 Thanks fellas. Starting to see a trend. I appreciate the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick85 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I've yet to set up my press for processing 223/556, but that will happen here in a few weeks. One question though is, I see where people are running a FL sizing die before the trim die. I've read multiple places that you don't want to do that as the sizing and trimming should happen in the same stage. If it's sized before, the trim die won't have as good a "hold" on the case and can cause problems. Has anyone heard of or actually seen this being a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 11 hours ago, Erick85 said: I've yet to set up my press for processing 223/556, but that will happen here in a few weeks. One question though is, I see where people are running a FL sizing die before the trim die. I've read multiple places that you don't want to do that as the sizing and trimming should happen in the same stage. If it's sized before, the trim die won't have as good a "hold" on the case and can cause problems. Has anyone heard of or actually seen this being a problem? Nope no problems. In fact I have been doing it for years. I set the size die in position 1 to size about 75% of the total sizing, and set the trim die to finish it. Keeps the head more even without tilting away from the trim/size die, getting more consistent results. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triemferent Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronn Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Does 223 brass have to be swaged or only if it is military brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, ronn said: Does 223 brass have to be swaged or only if it is military brass Any ammo with crimped primers has to have the crimp removed, either by swaging or by trimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronn Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Yes that I know. Does your normal buy at any store 223 ammo have crimped primers. Or does it vary by brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Most commercial brass/ammo does not have crimped primers, all military does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronn Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thank you. About to set up my 650 and rock chucker to do 223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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