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45 ACP Large / Small Primers..?


IGOTGLOCKED

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I have been aware by just being on here that 45 acp can have small or large primers. This was information I just absorbed and moved on due to not yet having a 45. I am now getting serious about adopting one and recalled this what seemed to be strange regarding different sized primers. I will reload 45 as soon as I have one consequently what the hech is this all about?

> Why two different size primers for the same caliber casing?

> Are there differences in ballistics, if so what are they?

> Does there seem to be a preference for different purposes  such as EDC and or competition?

Thanks in advance for helping me get my head around this and become better prepared.

Cheers!

IGG 

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7 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

> Why two different size primers for the same caliber casing?

> Are thee differences in ballistics, if so what are they?

> Does there seem to be a preference for different purposes  such as EDC and or competition?

 

Long time standard is large.  (We won't get into the odd Frankford Arsenal .204" size.)

 

The first small primer .45 primers were second generation lead free.  The Dinol lead free primer is "hotter" than lead styphnate and is also more expensive.  A small primer holds enough and saves some money.  Then they apparently concluded that a regular styphnate small primer would light a .45 powder charge and would still save a little money, which mounts up in mass production.

 

Tests I ran, a standard small primer gave 25 to 40 fps lower velocity, depending on the powder.  Easily made up with a magnum small primer or a little heavier powder charge, or just ignored unless you were just barely Major to start with.  Some people see no difference.

 

I think most reloaders cling to our large primer .45 ACP.  Some have adopted small primer .45  so they can use the same primer and primer feed as for 9mm, .38, and .40. 

 

I know of no reason to prefer one or the other beyond convenience. 

Sorting brass is a nuisance. 

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Agree with JW above

I use them in a 625 revolver to easily tell them apart form my auto loads

and

When I have an abundance I use them at lost brass matches.

I add a little powder to get same PF as my LPP loads, usually .1-.2 then chrono to be sure etc.

Once you've done this it doesn't have to been repeated unless you're the type to do it!!! LOL

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2 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

 

Long time standard is large.  (We won't get into the odd Frankford Arsenal .204" size.)

 

The first small primer .45 primers were second generation lead free.  The Dinol lead free primer is "hotter" than lead styphnate and is also more expensive.  A small primer holds enough and saves some money.  Then they apparently concluded that a regular styphnate small primer would light a .45 powder charge and would still save a little money, which mounts up in mass production.

 

Tests I ran, a standard small primer gave 25 to 40 fps lower velocity, depending on the powder.  Easily made up with a magnum small primer or a little heavier powder charge, or just ignored unless you were just barely Major to start with.  Some people see no difference.

 

I think most reloaders cling to our large primer .45 ACP.  Some have adopted small primer .45  so they can use the same primer and primer feed as for 9mm, .38, and .40. 

 

I know of no reason to prefer one or the other beyond convenience. 

Sorting brass is a nuisance. 

Thanks Jim!

Ok so I'd then prefer to stay with the spp as I have a current supply and actually about to get into my stash of magnum spp. This would then allow me to switch between loading 9 & 45 more easily.  For clarification, one has to sort  the brass and use the like primer diameter per like case; they are not interchangeable correct?

Edited by IGOTGLOCKED
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1 hour ago, jcc7x7 said:

Agree with JW above

I use them in a 625 revolver to easily tell them apart form my auto loads

and

When I have an abundance I use them at lost brass matches.

I add a little powder to get same PF as my LPP loads, usually .1-.2 then chrono to be sure etc.

Once you've done this it doesn't have to been repeated unless you're the type to do it!!! LOL

The good thing is I have a chrono and a range in my backyard...

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3 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

 For clarification, one has to sort  the brass and use the like primer diameter per like case; they are not interchangeable correct?

 

Not at all. Wrong primer size in a progressive is a hassle. 

 

You can easily trade out any LP cases you pick up to a traditionalist. Like me. 

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I use the SP .45s so I can use the same primers in 9mm, .45 and .223.  I use small rifle magnum primers and have seen no appreciable difference between what I got with the same load in LP vs SP, velocity wise.  I use Clays (Australian) in the 9s and .45s which is a pretty fast powder,  there might be some difference between the two primers size cases with a slower powder.  I use Federal cases in the .45 which seem to have the normal thickness case walls so have no problem with loading.  If you should happen to get hold of Federals with "nt" on the case head you'll find that they are crimped, which you'll have to swage or cut out to prime easily.

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2 hours ago, 57K said:

JW makes some good points. With the same powder charge in either, your loads with SPPs are going to run a bit slower and in my tests they won't be as uniform in ES and SD. The obvious solution would be an increase in powder charge to get the same velocity and then compare those loads to "control loads" with LPPs. A SPP magnum primer might help as well depending on the powder used. Most double-based flake powders like Bullseye and the others from Alliant ignite very easily. Again, compare to some "control rounds" made with LPPs with the same powder charge.

 

Sorting brass is a nuisance, and until a few years ago, unnecessary with .45 ACP. Cutting cost is far more important to the ammo-makers than the effect it has on handloaders. There is also the issue of some brands of brass, i.e. REM, and others, where case-wall thickness is thinner, and even potentially dangerous unless you take corrective steps to deal with it. Jacketed bullets will not get as much case-neck tension and set-back can occur. Some guys choose to use a U-die. In my case, I just toss them into another bin and use them to load over-size cast or coated bullets.;)

Thx 57, duly noted. I don't have my book with me, what diameter is the normal .45 acp and what is considered oversize?

Edited by IGOTGLOCKED
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2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

I use the SP .45s so I can use the same primers in 9mm, .45 and .223.  I use small rifle magnum primers and have seen no appreciable difference between what I got with the same load in LP vs SP, velocity wise.  I use Clays (Australian) in the 9s and .45s which is a pretty fast powder,  there might be some difference between the two primers size cases with a slower powder.  I use Federal cases in the .45 which seem to have the normal thickness case walls so have no problem with loading.  If you should happen to get hold of Federals with "nt" on the case head you'll find that they are crimped, which you'll have to swage or cut out to prime easily.

Thanks Steve, how do small rifle magnum primers and small pistol magnum primers differ?

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I think it's in the primer cup thickness vs the primer charge.  Seems that is the difference I have mostly read about.  I shoot 1911 pistols so don't have a problem but you see a lot of people say their striker fired pistols have problems with the magnum primers but not so much with the pistol primers.  This isn't based on anything but what I've read, so if anyone has better knowledge of the subject I'd also be interested in hearing it.

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2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

I think it's in the primer cup thickness vs the primer charge.  Seems that is the difference I have mostly read about.  I shoot 1911 pistols so don't have a problem but you see a lot of people say their striker fired pistols have problems with the magnum primers but not so much with the pistol primers.  This isn't based on anything but what I've read, so if anyone has better knowledge of the subject I'd also be interested in hearing it.

Thanks again Steve. For clarification you were saying striker fired pistols might have problems firing a magnum rifle primer not a magnum pistol primer correct?

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11 hours ago, 57K said:

 

Nominal jacketed bullet diameter is .451" and most cast/coated bullets are available at .452". SIERRA says their jacketed are .4515" and that may be due to doubling as bullets gor the .45 Colt. Another story within itself that you might want to review. But, in my .45 ACP loads, if the barrel slugs .451" I feed them .452" poly-coated these days.;)

Thx brother

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2018 at 8:56 PM, superdude said:

My striker fired Glock has problems setting off Federal small rifle primers. No problem with pistol primers.

I had the same thing happen in my Glock but I had changed the firing pin spring.  I changed it back to factory and the problem went away.

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